Runner back to starting location on error on 3rd out...

[Danger]

Scenario: Runner on 3rd with one out. Flyball to left field for out #2. Leftfielder throws to third behind the runner and runner gets in a pickle. Catcher is chasing runner back to third and throws to the 3rd baseman who tags runner out about 5 steps from bag, but 3rd baseman drops the ball which allows the runner to retreat to 3rd. Next batter reaches on single and batter after that homers.

Question: Since that SHOULD have been out #3, it would seem like an error should be given and none of the runs would be earned. However, that's only evident in hindsight. In looking strictly at the play, it seems like I recall that since the runner didn't advance and since you can't assume a double-play, there would be no error given. Is that an incorrect assessment on my part? Hardly seems fair to add earned runs against the pitcher when the runner would clearly have been out had the fielder not dropped the ball.

Is this kind of like when a catcher drops a pop foul... where it's only an error after-the-fact if the batter reaches base later in the at-bat? If that's the case, I'll have a followup question about how to do that in iScore.

Thoughts?

[team mom]

While iscore is usually pretty good about assigning earned runs, it does not catch all situations, especially when there is scorekeeper's judgment involved. If the app is not scoring it the way you think is correct, you have the option of overriding the stats and also adding a note in the play by play (if you want to remind yourself why the override was made.)

I think you are correct that you can't assign an error if there was no base advancement, but someone will have to confirm that. I think this is a case for overriding.

[PetroGuy]

Sorry to drag up a slightly old thread, but I'm traveling (for baseball, go figure) and just saw this. I think there would be an error on the play as you describe it. 10.12.a.1 says to charge an error if a misplay prolongs the presence on the bases of a runner. That seems to fit this case.

[Danger]

Thanks, Petro! That seemed to make the most sense to me, but I couldn't justify doing it that way due to the "can't assume a double play" rule floating thru my brain. Charging the error seems to be the most fair to the pitcher, who would have been out of the inning scoreless without the miscue.

[OhioTex]

.. semi related.. the can't assume a double play is not an absolute..

MLB10.12.
(d) The official scorer shall not charge an error against:
...
(3) any fielder who makes a wild throw in attempting to complete a double play or triple play, unless such wild throw enables any runner to advance beyond the base such runner would have reached had the throw not been wild;

Rule 10.12(d) Comment: When a fielder muffs a thrown ball that, if held, would have completed a double play or triple play, the official scorer shall charge an error to the fielder who drops the ball and credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw.

[Danger]

Thank you, OhioTex! I think that helps clarify it further. I went back and rescored the game from that point on. I entered as a line drive to LF for out #2. What happened to runner on 3rd? -> Safe at 3rd on error. I then went in an had to manually change the runs to Unearned, as either I scored it incorrectly or iScore couldn't decipher what I was doing and counted them as earned runs.

Thanks for your help, everybody!

[Forrest]

"Is this kind of like when a catcher drops a pop foul... where it's only an error after-the-fact if the batter reaches base later in the at-bat? If that's the case, I'll have a followup question about how to do that in iScore."

Don't believe this is a correct statement. As mentioned by another in this post, the dropped foul "prolonged" the batter's stay at the base (home plate) therefore, the dropped foul ball is scored immediately as an error.

[OhioTex]

@forrest. I agree with you. Blown catch of a foul ball Out is an error..at the time, not a delayed error. MLB 10.12.a.2 covers that specifically..

[Danger]

That's a good clarification. In that case, then, let's say a batter hits a foul ball. The first baseman drops the easy catch. Using iScore, how does one give an error to the first baseman without placing the batter on first base?

[OhioTex]

Misc > Assign error > 1B.

(caution, make sure you enter it correctly, b/c i do not think misc > assign error is editable in pitch by pitch editor, I think that was on the consideration list for future updates. )