Fielder's choice? Tagged 3rd out and run counts?

[PintoMom]

What a brouhaha last night! Long story short: this call decided whether it was a win or tie. I thought the call was wrong but after consulting several sources, I think ultimately the ump got it right (even though he changed his mind three times...and made the final decision based on the other coaches being the bigger bullies...) But I am unsure how to score this....

Pinto game, BTW.

2 outs. Boy on third, boy on first. Batter hits soft grounder straight to second baseman. Second baseman stops the ball, picks it up, and stands up, waiting to tag runner. Boy on first sees this, and refuses to leave the bag. Boy on third reaches home, and batter reaches first, and boy on first finally is told he must go to second. Second baseman meets him halfway for the tag. Of course, there is crazy screaming and it all happens very quickly.

First the ump said the run counted. Then the reversed and said no because the out was a force. Then he reversed himself again.

What happened?????

[CoachJoe]

Runner is out by force play, No run allowed

2.00
A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base
by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

4.09 HOW A TEAM SCORES.
(a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first,
second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning.
EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a
play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first
base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is
declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.

[team mom]

I think the ump was wrong. No run should be awarded if a third out is made on the play with a forced out.

4.09 HOW A TEAM SCORES.
(a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first,
second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning.
EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a
play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first
base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is
declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.

The only thing that maybe would be different in this case is if the tag out negates the force out. (i.e. if the defensive player had simply touched the base, would the run have counted?) Seems like this rule makes that distinction, but I still think the run should not count.

7.03
(a) Two runners may not occupy a base, but if, while the ball is alive, two runners are
touching a base, the following runner shall be out when tagged and the preceding
runner is entitled to the base, unless Rule 7.03(b) applies.
(b) If a runner is forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner and
two runners are touching a base to which the following runner is forced, the
following runner is entitled to the base and the preceding runner shall be out
when tagged or when a fielder possesses the ball and touches the base to which
such preceding runner is forced.

(mlb rules)

[PintoMom]

So the other team argued that it has to do with timing and the 2nd baseman's choice:
1. the boy on third made it to home before the out was made
2. the second baseman chose to make it a tag instead of a force thus removing the force

Here are MY citations:

4.09
HOW A TEAM SCORES.
(a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning. EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.

The question becomes: is this a force play or not?

7.08
Any runner is out when --
(e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

7.03
(a) Two runners may not occupy a base, but if, while the ball is alive, two runners are
touching a base, the following runner shall be out when tagged and the preceding
runner is entitled to the base, unless Rule 7.03(b) applies.
(b) If a runner is forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner and
two runners are touching a base to which the following runner is forced, the
following runner is entitled to the base and the preceding runner shall be out
when tagged or when a fielder possesses the ball and touches the base to which
such preceding runner is forced.

A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner.
Rule 2.00 (Force Play) Comment: Confusion regarding this play is removed by remembering that frequently the “force” situation is removed during the play. Example: Man on first, one out, ball hit sharply to first baseman who touches the bag and batter-runner is out. The force is removed at that moment and runner advancing to second must be tagged. If there had been a runner on third or second, and either of these runners scored before the tag-out at second, the run counts. Had the first baseman thrown to second and the ball then had been returned to first, the play at second was a force out, making two outs, and the return throw to first ahead of the runner would have made three outs. In that case, no run would score.
Example: Not a force out. One out. Runner on first and third. Batter flies out. Two out. Runner on third tags up and scores. Runner on first tries to retouch before throw from fielder reaches first baseman, but does not get back in time and is out. Three outs. If, in umpire’s judgment, the runner from third touched home before the ball was held at first base, the run counts.

In our case, the force was never removed. It is not a tag play but a force play. The run should NOT count.

[FTMSupport]

team mom and CoachJoe have it right --- whether the runner from first was tagged or not does not really matter. The runner was forced to leave the base because of the batter. This means the runner is forced out for the rule about whether the run scores or not. You can score it as a Tag Out in iScore, but it is a force play as far as the rule about whether the run scores or not.

[PintoMom]

ahhh...but how to score it? The run was the tie-making run in the bottom of the fifth, 3rd out made, game over. If the run doesn't count, we won.
Is there a "bad call" button?

[team mom]

Score how the ump called it, unfortunately, but I would add a note that it was a bad call!!

I think to get iscore to record the run, you'll have to score it as a single. A FC will not score the run I don't think (since it should not have counted!) Might have to manipulate the stats with an override.