Fielders Choice or Error?

[kbum]

What is the rule on this situation and how would I score it?
Batter pops up to 3B who drops it, but is then able to get runner out at 2nd (5-3)
Is batter scored with a FC or E5 or ?

[OhioTex]

Was there a runner on first? Or was it the batter/ runner who is out at second?

( did you mean 5-4 or 5-3 out)

Assuming it was a runner from first out at second, then no error, fielders choice

In high school baseball rules, if fielder drops a fair fly ball but recovers in time to force out a runner he is not charged with and error. It is recorded as a force out. Source NFHS 9.5.5.5

[team mom]

No error for softball either according to this rule:

"No error is charged if an out is made on that immediate play,
even if it changes the option of getting a lead out to getting an out
behind the lead." -NFCA Homeplate: ATEC: Beyond The Basics of Scoring Fastpitch Softball

[kbum]

Thank you! So if the 3B recovers the dropped popup ball in time to force out the runner going to second, I will give the batter a FC.

[team mom]

Not so sure about that. According to my reference, you credit a fielder's choice when a ball is put in play where a preceding runner is forced out on the hit, or would have been forced out had no error occurred. In this case we have already established that an error did not occur. So I would lean toward an out for the batter, no hit and no FC, and a RBI for the run scored. I would be interested in what others think though. That is only my guess based on reading these rules.

If the out at 2B is not the batter/runner, but a preceding runner, then I agree it is a FC. I think that is the same rule for baseball OhioTex referenced above.

[OhioTex]

Thank you! So if the 3B recovers the dropped popup ball in time to force out the runner going to second, I will give the batter a FC.

Still looking for clarification. Was there a runner on first who is out at second ( my assumption) or was it the batter who is out at second..

If a runner at first, who is forced out 5-4. Team mom and I agree no error force out, fielders choice.

If it was the batter runner who got tagged out at second, no hit, no error, out imho
( the fielder gets a statistical break b/c of base running blunder by batter/runner who should have been safe at one, and reached by error)

[TurboAg]

If it was the batter runner who got tagged out at second, no hit, no error, out imho
( the fielder gets a statistical break b/c of base running blunder by batter/runner who should have been safe at one, and reached by error)

I believe this assumption would be incorrect. The scoring must reflect how the batter reached 1st base, i.e, by a fielding error. Then the score would show what happened when the batter attempted to advance to second, i.e., tagged out. The only way the error would have been avoided after the drop is if the resulting out is a force out, which did not happen in this case.

[OhioTex]

I agree with you turbo...that feels better...

I believe this assumption would be incorrect. The scoring must reflect how the batter reached 1st base, i.e, by a fielding error. Then the score would show what happened when the batter attempted to advance to second, i.e., tagged out. The only way the error would have been avoided after the drop is if the resulting out is a force out, which did not happen in this case.

Still have not heard where runners were in the original situation

[team mom]

I disagree based on the fact that an out was made on the play. The rules clearly state no error. If no out is made I agree then e5. Because an out was made, no error and no hit. I think it is a quirk for this particular play. If the out was a force out of a runner already at first, then it is a FC. Has anyone seen this particular sequence and if so, how was it handled? Of course we still don't know all the correct facts, like was there already a runner at first?

[TurboAg]

...based on the fact that an out was made on the play. The rules clearly state no error.

Perhaps you could cite the specific rules you are referring to.

For the sake of discussion, let’s assume there was no runner at first to start the play, otherwise if the runner at first was put out at second on a force, it was without question a fielder’s choice.

MLB Rule 10.12.a.1: The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder whose misplay prolongs the time at bat of a batter, prolongs the presence on the bases of a runner or permits a runner to advance one or more bases...

In this case (no runner on base), the fielder misplayed a fly ball, which allowed a runner to reach base (1st). Therefore the batter/runner’s presence on the bases was prolonged, since he should not have reached first base. That must be reflected in the books as an error. The only question remaining is wheter it's a 1-base or 2-base error. While it would have been a 2-base error if he had gotten safely to 2nd, it is a 1-base error and a tag out at 2nd since he did not. Think of this as being the same scenario as a batter hitting a ball into the outfield and trying to stretch a single into a double. By virtue of reaching first base on a hit, he had a single, but by subsequently trying to stretch the single to a double, he was put out. The scoring has to account for each base obtained by a batter/runner, otherwise the batter in this would not have received credit for a hit and his average would suffer.

MLB Rule 10.12.d.4: The official scorer shall not charge an error against any fielder, when, after fumbling a ground ball or dropping a batted ball that is in flight or a thrown ball, the fielder recovers the ball in time to force out a runner at any base…

This situation does not meet the requirement for this rule because the batter/runner was not a "force out".

So, I stand by my original ruling, E5, Tagged Out 5-4 (assumed positions involved) until another rule proves otherwise.