Cannot Change Batters

[OhioTex]

Yep have had bat out of order situations occur in a number of games, generally one or two a year. Agree a minor point not. Will take discussion off line

[Jaskegreen]

FTM,
You are probably right, but I thought keeping the discussion alive with the hope of finding a workflow for this unusual situation would be beneficial for all.

Thank you all who have contributed. I think playing this out with multiple minds has been a great experience and has provided a workable result.

Cheers,
Jason

[Hasbro35]

Hi folks...just my two cents...

I think this happens more than you think. I also score in a league that allows all batters to bat. We had a player come in late and he batted out of order and then the next inning they batted him in the correct order (3rd inning he batted 9th and then successive innings batted 10th). It would be nice, especially in the heat of the game, to be able to offensive sub at any point. Creating a dummy player on the fly is not easy in the heat of the moment. Also, skipping 8-9 batters is not easy considering the delay between each batter. Doing a quick sub for that one inning is the easiest solution. Hopefully we can have it added as an enhancement.

[spmilb]

I think you guys may be misunderstanding one key component to the BOO rules.

Disclaimer: I'm a SOFTBALL guy, so there may be some differences in baseball, but I'm pretty damn sure that you NEVER permanently switch the batting order! If an incorrect batter bats and is NOT CAUGHT (before next pitch), he becomes the correct batter. The next "correct" batter after him is the one following him in the lineup--and then you continue in the original batting order. Any batters that were skipped as a result of UNCAUGHT BOO just have to wait until their turn comes around again next time (no penalty or outs)!

Regarding SCORING with iScore: If the BOO is not caught, it's pretty easy--skip (no outs) to the incorrect batter and start recording their AB. iScore will automatically go to the next batter.

It gets more complicated if BOO is caught (after AB, but before next pitch). If you're the scorer and you noticed the BOO, you probably skipped to the incorrect batter (without outs). Then you record the AB and play. In ASA Softball, any outs recorded as a result of the incorrect batter becoming a batter-runner STAND and if the incorrect batter is appealed, HE is called out ALSO! [Interesting example: Nobody on base, B2 bats (should be B1). Grounds out. Defensive team appeals BOO before next pitch. B1 is out for BOO, B2's out STANDS, and B2 is now the correct batter (with 2 outs). If he gets out again, one batter batted twice in a row to complete the entire half inning! This is TRUE!] I have NO IDEA how you would score that?! Perhaps B1 out for BOO, then B2 grounds out, then skip all the way around to B2 again for his next AB?

To complicate things further, anything that happens while the incorrect batter was AT BAT stands (ie stolen bases, runs scored, etc). So after you undo and score correct batter out for BOO, you would have to re-create any SB, etc. THEN score the ground out. ALSO, keep in mind that no runs or advancement can happen as a result of incorrect batter becoming a batter-runner (if caught), so don't recreate that part! [If in the example above, there was a runner on 3B who stole home while B2 was AB, that counts, but if he scored during B2s ground-out, he will be called back to 3B.] Good luck with THAT ONE! You will need about 10 minutes to figure that out!!

I guess you would have to write down what happened while B2 was AB. Then, UNDO back to the correct batter, score him out for BOO, then re-record the stuff that happened while the incorrect batter was up, then when you record his ground-out, remember to hold up any advancement of runners.

Hopefully in your league, only the correct batter is out for BOO and all the other stuff just disappears!!! But regardless, you should NEVER EVER change the original batting order and I'm 100% certain of that!! (OK, 99.99% certain because I haven't seen every rule book out there!) Unfortunately, many coaches and even some umpires don't really understand this rule.

[OhioTex]

I agree spmilb.

I think the underlying rule causes more confusion than iscore, (, as long as you know in iscore you can skip batters with misc button out/no out). In fact having the line up not be movable in iscore let's you determine the right official batter easier.

I worked various scenarios off line to show how you do not need or want to make an offensive sub in a BOO situations, instead you want to use misc skip batter out/ no out. Iscore handled most well, the ones it failed on would not be solved with a offensive substitution..

Feel free to pm me offline for more details

[Hasbro35]

Actually...adding the sub worked best for me when I re-scored my game last night. I would not want to have to skip 9 batters in the heat of a game. Just not feasible. Insta-sub is the best solution and it requires you to actively sub, so its not really re-ordering screwing with the line-up order per se. For my situation I feel being able to sub at any time in the program should be the norm, since you have to touch a batter and actually chose to sub. Its not hurting anyone to have the sub option when you are playing all-batters hit situation. I understand what you guys are saying about the normal rules, but not all leagues follow the standard rules and I feel iScore should be flexible enough to handle all situations. Software in general should be flexible enough to handle all cases and not lock users into doing backflips to get something done, especially when you are in the heat of scoring a game. As a newbie this software has been very frustrating because you can't edit certain situations after the game is over, e.g., adding pitches after a game and not allowing subs. After having to re-score two of my games this season from scratch because I missed something I have to tell you this software needs to be way more open-ended. I'm an IT project manager and this app is killing me in its closed structure.

[FTMSupport]

You can do subs as long as you have one player not batting. If you think you will be facing this situation often, you can always have one extra player in your lineup that is set to batting = NO, and then offensive substitutions will be allowed for you all the time. For the vast majority of people scoring with all players bat, they would never do an offensive substitution, and having that option would lead to confusion (we used to have it in an early version of iScore, and it caused more confusion than being helpful for people).

We have tried to tailor the experience for the majority of users, and allow the others to still do what they want, but it might require a little more work. As an IT Project Manager, we are sure you are familiar with the many variations of the "80/20 rule"... this would fit into that category.

We would not want to spend a large amount of time working on something that is effecting easily < 1% of all games scored. We want to have workarounds available when they occur (having an extra player in the lineup allows the offensive substitution), but there are things that effect far more people that we try and focus our available development time on.

That being said, we appreciate all suggestions, and are always looking for ways to improve iScore.

Thank you.