Two errors, same player, same play

[CoachRon]

Here is the situation: Leadoff batter reaches first on a base hit. 2nd batter pops up to shallow right field. Runner on first holds, but the ball is dropped. That's an E9. The rightfielder quickly gets the ball, throws to second base in plenty of time to get runner going from first to second, but overthrows the shortstop covering the bag. It's now 1st and 2nd, no outs instead of runner on first and 1 out. To me, that is a separate attempt to make a play on a different runner, and therefore a second error on the same play to the same player and the stats should reflect two errors.

I don't see any prohibition in section 10 of the rules against asigning two errors to the same player on a single play, except in the case where a wild throw results in multiple runners advancing or advancing more than one base.

In iScore, I used the Misc-->Assign Error function. I also reviewed the play by play and determined that the runner would have been left on third had the original play (the popup) been made, but iScore showed the run which he scored as earned. That may be because I didn't score it completely right. Either way, I edited the stats to reduce the pitchers earned runs by 1.

Anyone have thoughts on scoring two errors or the correct scoring for that in iScore and/or the earned run?

[danmcc]

My thought on the two errors is that it would only be one error on the dropped ball. There was no base advancement on the overthrow. I think had he dropped the ball but made the out at second it would have been scored fielders choice since an out was made on a preceding runner. JMO, others with better rules experience will weigh in on this one.

[team mom]

I think that had the throw made the out at second, there would be no error on the play. (An error can not be scored if an out is made on the play, even if the out is on a different runner.) So I agree with danmcc. Only one error on the play.

(d) The official scorer shall not charge an error against:
(4) any fielder when, after fumbling a ground ball or dropping a batted ball that is
in flight or a thrown ball, the fielder recovers the ball in time to force out a
runner at any base;

[OhioTex]

My two cents.. Not definitive on this one.. Just my interpretation.. 2 errors..

I agree with team mom, if the force out was made at second, no error. (runner on first is the same end result. )

Assuming as he said it was a bad throw and runner in scorers judgment would have been out on an ordinary effort throw, since we must account for each runner advancing, sounds like a second play and second error. Batter-Runner advances to first on catch error, runner at first advances to second on throwing error.

Imagine if ball was caught by right fielder and then thrown so wild that the runner now walks to second base...it would be an error right?

Iscore does a pretty good job on earned runs and errors, but sometimes manual override is necessary to accommodate subjective decisions by scorer..

[CoachRon]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone! We decided on two errors on the two different attempts.

[CarlosPeguero]

There is definitely only one error on this play, because only one runner advanced. If you charge an error, that means that it is an error regardless of what happens next. But if he had nailed the runner at second, you wouldn't have given him the first error, so it is very clearly wrong right there.

[jdog]

I agree, 1 error. To look at it another way (which may or may not be a good way, but it's my way . The error is assigned based on the advantage the other team receives. Because of the dropped ball, ruled an error by the fielder, no out and the runners advanced. The throw in and of itself did not create any advantage to the other team. NOW, had the overthrow allowed the runner at second to advance to 3rd, that, to me, would be a second error, and easily scored by taping the runner at second and entering the throw as the reason the runner advanced.