Cannot Change Batters

[OhioTex]

jbeckman,

- you are correct, a great way to force the batting sub screen to be active is the add a dummy player. of course an easier way would be to have a game setting to "always enable batting substitution screen" set it and forget it option. but having a dummy player on your team roster, bat = no, comes pretty close to that

Jason

- what are the rules for your league on batting order?.


If your league rules are similar to what i have experienced, the way iscore does it now, not having the batting substitution screen available, actually helps reinforce our bat all rules, having it available would be counter to how the leagues enforces bat all .

sounds like for yor league NFHS/ MLB rules for batting out of order are in effect. (true?) But how does your league handle late arrivals? if Johnny arrives late? where does he go in the batting line up? the end? the next player to bat? replace a player?

will respond more after i understand that.

[Jaskegreen]

I did think about the dummy player as well. That's an easy option, but would like the option to set batting sub screen.

We adhere to MLB rules on batting out of order. For late arrival players, we add them to the end of the lineup. For that, I would just go back to the original lineup and put them at the end.

Cheers,
Jason

[OhioTex]

(caution, new users may want to skip this, as it is more advanced user brainstorming than advice or help)

Jason -

your world sounds like mine. (describe below) and iscore seems to handle it well, what sceenrio am i missing that having the sub screen will help.?

...for us, having the sub screen off helps enforce the rules we play by..
* MLB out of order
* late arrivals go to end of order ,
* do not allow players to be replaced

since we enforce batting out of order, the line up must be same through out game. players Able, ben, charlie... must always be addressed in same order inning to inning. Using the misc skip batter (out or not) works well.

players can leave (be skipped) with or without an out - based on situation. But If Zach arrives late, he must bat at end of the line up, he is not inserted in as next at bat or between able ben and charlie, or wherever he wants, nor can he replace (sub) for another player. He must go to end of line up, that is the rule my leagues use and the rules iscore follows..

the only reason i think i would want the bating sub screen on is if i let Zach come in and replace charlie , (and then charlie leaves the park). if that rule is allowed in your bat all league, then I can see where you need the sub screen, because that is what it does.

(Note: as you know, Iscore does not allow Ned to arrive late and be inserted into the middle of the line up - that upsets iscore, eg. can not go from able, ben, charlie to able, ned, ben charlie. (unless ned was there all along and skipped every time until he actually batted)

just my thoughts, am interested what i am missing

[jcbeckman]

I did think about the dummy player as well. That's an easy option, but would like the option to set batting sub screen.

Understood, but the dummy player at least gets you by for now.

[OhioTex]

sorry friends, i am just being dense today.. and just not getting

what does having it enabled get you ?

If you are batting all, why do you need the batting sub screen?

[OhioTex]

sorry friends, i am just being dense today.. and just not getting

what does having it enabled get you ?

If you are batting all, why do you need the batting sub screen?

[Jaskegreen]

OhioTex,
There is a defensive sub screen and an offensive sub screen. When all players bat, the offensive sub screen does not appear. If the batters bat out of order and are not caught (or are caught later), then that order becomes the new batting order. The offensive sub screen allows you to alter the batting lineup, and if the screen is not available, then the batting order cannot be adjusted to the new order.

Cheers,
Jason

[OhioTex]

( yep, I was being too loose calling it the "batting sub screen", you are correct it is the "offensive sub screen", and i know it is disabled when bat all is in force, and that is when the jbeckman trick helps, jbecman trick use to also help when iscore could not handle late arrivals well. )

your point seems to be we need the offensive sub screen to handle bat out of order situations, my point is I am not sure that is true, if it is needed, then i like your idea, but if you can handle bat out of order with misc skip batter not sure it is needed.

I have encountered a few bat out of turn situations when scoring and misc skip batter has handled without needing to make an offensive substitution. so that was what i was trying to understand, when is it needed..

in reflecting ore on this and running some scenarios, my encounters have been fairly "standard" out of order (ie simply the next player bats ahead of the right player, eg #4 goes to bat when #3 should have.) in both the caught and not caught scenario. i have handled those with skip batter out and not out as appropriate., depending on if caught or not on appeal. you got me thinking about, are there more complicated bat out of order situations where you would not be able to use misc skip batter (out/not out)..

i simulated a number of other 'more complicated' out of order situations, (example #9 batter goes up to bat #1 batter on, when #2 was proper batter, does not get noticed, and hence #9 becomes official batter, next up #10 batter, then #1 but #1 already on base). I still found skip matter (out/no out) works . (though in the most crazy situations it took a whole lot of skip batters) , (i know i have not tried every out and out of order combination, so may be missing the example that proves your need.).

I took the other approach and enabled a dummy player and tried to use the offensive sub screen, i found it harder / (required double substitutions) because keeping the original bating order was even more critical in the crazy out of turn scenarios i tried.

I am not trying to be difficult, just trying to figure out when you would make a substitution in a bat all situation. b/c if so i really like the idea you proposed of creating a default option to enable the offensive sub screen in bat all games vs the dummy player add each game

[Jaskegreen]

OhioTex,
I didn't even think of skipping multiple batters to get to the correct batter. That makes sense, but it does make the scorecard look a bit interesting.

Now, if there becomes a new batting order, it seems the solution may be to skip each batter to get to the batter that was skipped. It then looks as though I still have to switch the involved batters in the offensive sub screen to make the batting order correct. Then I must skip the batter that batted out of turn to get to the batter that was skipped.

So, let's lay down a scenario (all players batting and must have a dummy player that is not):
Batter #1 get's a single. Batter #2 is skipped and Batter #3 bats out of order. Caught, #2 is out and batting order remains. Not caught, #2 becomes third batter. Must then skip batters #4-#12 (supposing there are 12 batters) and #1 and #2. Offensively sub Batters #2 and #3 (#3 becomes second batter, #2 becomes third batter). Then skip Batter #3 to get to #2. Continue the game. Amen -- Play Ball!

Am I out of my mind? Is there another way? This is something that is so easy to do on paper. There must be a way to make it simpler in iScore.

Cheers,
Jason

[FTMSupport]

You guys are putting a lot of thought / effort into this. I have personally scored hundreds of games with iScore at this point, and not once run into the situation of a team batting out of order. We do know it can happen, and we have the Out option for "Batting Out of Turn" in the system, but it does not seem like it is something we should be putting a lot of effort into to make a situation that comes up very, very rarely easier to score.

Is this a common occurrence in your league for some reason?