Programatic Defect in Earned Run?

[shebs99]

This is a Great app! Love it.

I have a situation that i need some clarity on as it may be a defect in the program.

- 1 out
- batter hits double and is on 2nd base
- next batter strikes out but the runner on 2nd advanced to 3rd on a passed ball (2 outs)
- next batter walks so runners on 1st and 3rd
- runner on 1st steals second base and the runner on 3rd steals home on the throw to 2nd

Is the runner that scored an EARNED RUN? Iscore says YES. But the runner would not have been at 3rd base if it were not due to the passed ball? He wouldn't not have been in a position to score on the steal, correct?

Can you clarify? Also, assuming this is a mistake according to baseball rules, is there a way to go back into the play by play and change this so that it is reflected in the statistics?

Thanks!!

[AdamB5000]

I'm not the be-all, end-all source of baseball rules, but as I see it the runner that eventually scores reached base legitimately and not by error, so despite his advancement from 2nd base to 3rd on an error, I'd consider it an earned run.

I've never put too much thought into it, but no outs were "lost" in the error so we cannot assume a 3rd out and the runner scoring did not get on base courtesy of an error, so IMO everything sounds earned.

[shebs99]

I am curious to how the iscore team has implemented the baseball rules in the application. I have read some of the rule book and its not exactly clear. I do know that if the runner was on third base and there was a BP, then it would NOT be earned. But in this case, the runner should not have advanced to 3rd and would not have been in a position to score. The rule book says a run is unearned if it would not have otherwise scored in 'normal' play without BP or errors.

The only think i can think of is that

(1) when the batter struck out (on the BP) that you cannot assume that the batter would have gone to 3rd anyhow with or without the passed ball --- that is, he may have been stealing?

(2) there was not a lost out

But clearly, the iscore team has implemented the play book in the program so wanted to see what they official ruling on this is so i can get back to the parent that asked the question! I am just the dumb scorekeeper!!!

scott

[FDT92]

what happened to the batter who was at batter during the "delayed double steal"?

An unearned run can become and earned run based on what happens the rest of that inning. So if the next batter hits a HR, runner #1 would have scored then (even without the passed ball).

[FTMSupport]

Yes, what happened with the following batters is important in determining earned runs. If you can recap the rest of the inning, we can help out.

[AdamB5000]

Just want to say kudos for the software programmers. Baseball gets pretty complex! 8)

[shebs99]

Thanks for all your help. Here is the full inning.

- #1 batter hits a double, held up at 2nd
- #2 batter strikes out -- 1 out
- #3 batter strikes out, but the runner on 2nd advances to 3rd on a passed ball -- 2 outs
- #4 batter is walked, runners on 1st and 3rd -- still 2 outs
- #5 batter at plate. Runner on 1st steals 2nd, catcher throws to 2nd and the runner on 3rd scores (steal of home)
- #5 batter then grounds out to the pitcher to first base for the 3rd out. Inning over.

Is the run that scored from third an earned run? Or unearned since the BP allowed him to advance to 3rd to be in a position to steal home on the throw to second base?

Thanks!!

scott

[FTMSupport]

This scenario should be unearned, and we will get this fixed. In our "what happened after the error (or passed ball in this case)", we are treating both Steals and Wild Pitches (there was another thread asking about Wild Pitches) the same way we are treating hits by batters (i.e. we turn potentially unearned runs into earned runs when these things occur). We will fix the code so Steals and Wild Pitches only advance runners a single base for Earned Run calculations.

We will also be adding a manual override for Earned vs Unearned as there will always be situations where it truly is a scorekeepers judgment that determines earned vs unearned. We do our best to calculate automatically based on the action, but there are a few circumstances where a judgment call must be made.

Thank you.

[shebs99]

Thank you.

Is there a way i can go into the play by play and change this after the fact? Or change the steal to a BP so that it is calculated as an earned run? I would just like to find a way -- even if messy -- to fix it so that the kid doesnt have the earned run?

scott

[FTMSupport]

If you change the runner to made it home on error, then it would not count.

Another way to do it based on your sequence of events to get the stats right would be to change the "Passed Ball" in #3 to "Stolen Base", and change the "Stolen Base" in #5 to "Passed Ball". You could then put a note on each of those 2 events saying they were intentionally reversed to get the stats right.

This should give everyone the stats you would want, though the actual sequence of events would only be known from the notes.