Earned Run problem and some substitution strangeness

[CaN]

Sorry. Some more detail might help. Error happened in top of 2nd inning: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.js ... de=gameday" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. Note that pitcher had no earned runs credited to him in game.
Best,
CaN

[FTMSupport]

Thank you for this. Just to recap... with this play, the sequence was:

1. There were already 2 outs
2. Batter hits single
3. Advances to second on pick off attempt that resulted in error because of missed catch
4. Single by next batter scoring the run from second
5. Player that hit single is caught stealing 2nd for the 3rd out.

We still believe in the end that this was scorekeeper's discretion, and the only way to really be sure to get it right is allowing you guys to override earned vs unearned runs. We have a LOT of logic in place to try and get it right, but sometimes earned vs unearned can not be completely determined by the plays that are entered. Had the batter in #4 above hit a double, triple, or homerun instead of a single, it would most likely have been considered an earned run. Had the runner on first been a very fast runner, and the single was deep / to a corner, the scorekeeper MAY have given an earned run even on the single. Had the batter that hit the single not subsequently got caught stealing for the 3rd out, and instead the following batter got a single, it most likely would have been an earned run. We believe in this case, it is up to the scorer to determine had the error not occurred, would the run have scored, and there are some situations where iScore just can not determine that no matter how much logic we put in.

We are trying to find a definitive answer to whether if the pick off attempt was a throwing error by the pitcher instead of a fielding error by the first baseman, would that change the Earned Run status. The logic here is that just like with a Wild Pitch, the pitcher making a non-fielding error may not change the run to unearned... otherwise a dubious pitcher could intentionally overthrow bases as pickoff attempts allowing every runner that makes it to base to score, and have a 0 ERA. Obviously a coach would pull him out of the game if this occurred, but it seems a throwing error on a pick off attempt may fall into the same category as a wild pitch. If anyone has an answer to this from an official source, please let us know. (We know fielding errors by pitchers count just like any error, but that is because once the pitcher has thrown a pitch and the ball is in play, the pitcher is treated as a fielder, but up until that point, he has special status as the pitcher.)

[CaN]

I think you've got it right: it was scorer's discretion. I wouldn't spend time analyzing it further. An override (correction) option between earned and unearned solves the problem.

[OhioTex]

1) All agree scorer judgment comes into play, and like the idea of some review entry/edit process like suggested between innings..

2) that said, do check the current logic. the simple (silly) scenario i posted earlier seems odd...

" I put a batter on with a single, and then had runner reach second on error, third on error, and safe at home (advance by batter), even when batter advancing him reached on error -- still gave the earned run. only time i got the batter who reach on a scored single to not show as an earned run was when runner reached home safe and i tapped error then (by a player on that specific play)."

2) I will forward by email , a reference pdf document from national fastpitch coaches association for scoring guidelines on earned and unearned runs (page 52) (sorry do not have MLB version, but i suspect basically the same). Basically it does call out the wild pitch exception you noted. and clarifies the over all intent is to score the run 'unearned' if errorless play would have resulted in different outcome.

[davidlimbaugh]

Similar problem with my first game using this app. Situation: First batter - K ; Second Batter - single ; Third Batter - routine ground ball double play to second baseman but he boots it. now first and second, 1 out. Next batter gets infield single to load the bases. next batter is HBP and gets an RBI. Next two batters strike out. I can see how the software made the mistake of calling this an earned run but in fact it isn't. IF second baseman gets AN out then runner would have never scored, thus not earned. Even if he had scored on the single before the HBP it would not be earned if play by second baseman would have gotten the force out at second. I realize the difficulty of writing an application that can take all of these permutations into account. How about we get the ability to change the earned or un-earned runs after the game is over if we forget to change it during the game? I have been using an app before this and it always prompted me each half inning for which runs were earned and unearned and during the heat of the game when you are worried more about who is coming up when we come in or who they are bringing in to pitch or play right or .. that was hard to do. Perhaps any inning where an error occurs and runs score we get ability to decide which runs are earned or unearned?

[FTMSupport]

We will be adding the ability to override the calculated stats in a future release. Thank you.

[allrounder]

Hi guys, any news when this ability will be added?

Thanks

[FTMSupport]

No news yet... it is still on our priority list, but not at the top yet. Sorry.

[allrounder]

no worries!

[mrbaseball1122]

Back to the Earned Run issue. I am not sure if it has been addressed in another thread but when there was a fielding (sure out) error and the inning should be over, according to MLB all runs scored after 2 outs are unearned (even homeruns). I know that FTM will continue improving this already great program. I love it