Dropped 3rd Strike, Fielders Choice, Earned Run Calculation

[suttio]

Thanks "OT" and FTM,

I guess I did do it correctly based on your wonderful explanations and info. It appears it showed up wrong on the pitching stats. Catcher stats are accurate however.

[suttio]

Hi All,

Thanks so much for all the help. I'm very sorry for taking up your time on such a weird scenario.

This may come back to our awesome guys at FTM. I have simulated this numerous times and it always comes back to giving the pitcher an earned run. It is my understanding this should not be happening. Is this a glitch on my unit or is this something in the program.

I understand CoachJoe was able to simulate and get a different result. Any help would be appreciated. I have selected passed ball and held after the runner on 1st question and still get the same results. Thanks

[FTMSupport]

Just did this as a test...

New Game

Batter 1: Strike, Strike, Strike, Safe, Dropped 3rd Strike, Held Up
Batter 2: Homerun

Pitcher Stats: 2 Runs, 1 ER


If instead you do this:

New game

Batter 1: Strike, Strike, Strike, Safe, Wild Pitch 3rd Strike, Held Up
Batter 2: Homerun

Pitcher Stats: 2 Runs, 2 ER


This is as we would expect.

From your description, it sounds like you are not using "Safe, Dropped Third Strike" after entering strike 3, but instead using Passed Ball after the runner already made it to first. This would not be correct --- "Safe, Dropped Third Strike" after the third strike is how the Batter was safe at first.

[suttio]

I did the following with a new game in different scenarios. I agree with your assessment in the homerun scenario. I'm still trying to correct my actual situation which is below.

This is how it was entered. Batter #1 Strike 1, Strike 2, Strike 3, safe, dropped third, batter at first, held.
Then batter #2 grounder to 2nd base fielders choice, runner on first force out (4-6), batter, held.
Batter #3, Single, runner on first advanced by batter to 2nd base.
Batter #4, Single, Batter #2 on second scores, advanced by batter. Batter #3 advances to 2nd. The next 2 batters are outs and no other runs score.

It is my understandingI should have the following stats. Pitcher 0 earned runs. Catcher 1 PB. I am showing Pitcher 1 earned run and catcher 1 PB. So, it appears the catcher is correct and the pitcher is not. Could you please verify on your iPhone? Or is this the way it's supposed to be?

Not that it matters but I have thoroughly enjoyed this program and your service since it first came out. I have scored numerous seasons and trained others how to use it. (I just did not want you to think I am totally new to the program and how to use it.)

Thanks Again

[OhioTex]

The issue is not the Homer scenerio.

FTM , can you extend your scenario to include three batters, add in a fielders choice for batter 2, after the reach by error (or passed ball) for batter 1, and before the homer for batter 3. See what you think then?

try this to demonstrate the point generally.

New game
batter 1. in play reach on error (or strike strike strike drop 3 safe - same result - safe at 1)
batter 2. in play fielders choice (grounder to short, U6 out if that is needed)
what happen to runner at first? out, 2nd, force out,
what happen to batter? safe held up at first
batter 3. home run

2 earned runs is what iscore says. Is that the correct scoring?


(I have confused my self to be unsure of the answer, it may be a "depends" have to see it live scenario, but i would have thought only 1 earned, but iscore shows 2 earned)

[FTMSupport]

You have to extend beyond those plays to know if the runs are earned or not earned.

batter 1: error or dropped 3 safe
batter 2: FC
batter 3: strikeout
batter 4: strikeout
batter 5: homerun

No earned runs here because there would have been 3 outs

batter 1: error or dropped 3 safe
batter 2: FC
batter 3: strikeout
batter 4: homerun
batter 5: strikeout

2 earned runs

You can not assume the batter that was safe on FC would have been out without a FC (maybe player went the "short way" and got the guy, but if he tried to throw a guy out at first, he would have been safe... no way to know)

So it depends on the rest of the inning... just like with errors as you say. If the runs are scored before there would have been 3 outs without the dropped 3rd, the runs are still earned. The original batter that reached because of dropped third can not be earned because he should have been out, but the following batters are elgibile to be earned before 3 outs would have been made.

[TurboAg]

The key to this type of situation is to reconstruct the inning without the commission of any errors (or 3rd strike PB in this case). Since it can be assumed that the batter would have been out had the catcher caught the ball, the hypothetical inning would have 1 out, nobody on at this point. If the next batter, who got on by FC, could have been put out (benefit of the doubt going to the pitcher), then the hypothetical inning would have 2 outs and nobody on. The third batter struck out, thus the hypothetical inning is over and any runs scored after this point would be unearned.

Let's make it interesting however. In the real scenario, if a new pitcher were brought in to face the 4th batter and gave up the homerun, he would be charged with 1 earned run because he does not have the benefit of previous errors committed in his earned run calculation.

It's hard (impossible?) for iScore to make all the judgement calls, yet adding more questions for the user make it more cumbersome for the user. There's just no substitute for the endless possibilities of real paper scorekeeping. But, iScore is about as good as it gets.

[suttio]

FTM, is there a way I can change this to reflect the correct numbers in my scenario. My real scenario did not have a homerun. Just the scenario as listed above. In fact, the fielders choice was a very close umpire call that could have been a double play if the shortstop prepared himself better. So there is no chance that this would have not been an easy out at first. I realize there are many different scenarios that could interfere with the iScore programs. I agree this is the best way to do it, my only problem is I have a high school head coach that thinks I'm messing up their stats and want to make it right for them. They love having the stats when I provide them, but heaven forbid if there is a glitch. Especially, if we catch their mistakes with this great program. Is there a possible way, in a future update, to allow for an advanced user to go into the play by play section and change the earned run option? This could be the best way that I can think of that would not affect the outcome of a game and the program and would be like changing a hit to an error at a later time. I realize you could not enter it on the fly while scoring, but having the option to replay it in play by play makes total sense as the perfect place for this option. Thanks

[FTMSupport]

You can change it now. Just go to Game Manager, select the game, select Pitching Stats, and tap the ER value for the pitcher you want to reduce their earned runs for, and reduce the number by 1. The ERA will automatically be recalculated.

[suttio]

Thanks, I guess I wasn't saving and recalculating properly. Thanks again for all of your help and keep up the great work on a fantastic program. Now if I could only get iScore basketball to work as good as iScore baseball. (just the operator)

Thanks to everyone for their input in this matter. Looking forward to scoring another game in 33 degree weather tomorrow. Yay, you got to love baseball in Wisconsin.