http://iscoresports.com/

Because iScore only provides undo/redo and not an event editor, the only practical way to record plays accurately with iScore, is from a manual pitch and play record after each play or at the end of the game. This allows the iScore event recorder to not face any pressure to keep pace with the game.


ACCURACY Problem:

[blockquote]Considering the amount of data that is needed to enter during a game in iScore (lineup, pitches, plays, substitutions, etc.), one recorder will not record events accurately even if he is well prepared before the game begins and has someone manually recording events and providing feedback. The iScore keeper will be precise, but there is too much going on to be accurate when the phone locks up, the play proceeds quickly, batteries run low, and/or the recorder misinterprets the play. Ultimately, he WILL fall behind or record inaccurately to keep up. Undo is very limited in these circumstances. Although I do not know if iScore would ever provide or consider such a solution, let's consider what is required to officially record a game with iScore. [/blockquote][blockquote]
[/blockquote][blockquote]First, the score keeper would need to work exclusively for the officials and not the managers with support of an observer and manual recorder. Now, lets consider the technology. [/blockquote]

IDEAL Solution:

[blockquote]I guess you'd need a router as Bluetooth would not be able to cover the range between iPhones. Of course, this will place a severe limit on battery life, so auxiliary batteries would be needed for each iPhone. Or, if Bluetooth is the solution, all the iPhone operators would have to be in close proximity (less than 30'?) of each other. Now for iScore operators, we'd need a pitch count recorder, play recorder, and event override operator. Any of the iScore apps should be able to record the lineup and position assignments and synchronize the apps. Finally, provide iScore monitor apps for managers, coaches and umpires to see the recorded events and provide feedback to the event override operator. We'd also need an easy way to setup one, two, three, or four iPhones working in tandem in less than 10 minutes.


A simpler configuration could be an iScore play recorder and override operator as well as one or more iScore monitors refreshing their iPhones when they are in range of the override operator. Even then, I'd imagine it wouldn't be that simple to setup in less than 10 minutes. [/blockquote]

PRAGMATIC Solution:

[blockquote]Now that I've presented these more complex scenarios, let's get back to basics. I'd prefer to record the game manually, have someone record the game as best they can with iScore and allow us to reconcile events between innings and after the game. Not being able to delete, insert or edit events pitch by pitch severely limits the accuracy of iScore no matter how good the iScore operator is. Undo is just not good enough. PLEASE iScore developers - provide EDIT functions to delete, insert or edit events pitch by pitch in between innings and after the game ends. [/blockquote]

Hindsight:

[blockquote]Without an event editor, iScore will never be accurate unless recorded from manual notes after each play. And if recorded at the end of the game, forget about recording pitch location. In hindsight, maybe this will always be the optimal scenario with iScore or any baseball scoring app:

- manually record the pitch count and location,

- manually record the play, catch up with iScore, and

- most importantly, don't allow anyone to talk to the iPhone operator during the game. [/blockquote]


At Bat vs Per Pitch Event Model:

[blockquote]Is there complexity that has dramatic effects on the outcome of innings and games when pitch events are edited? Of course. But, the application should allow it and do it's best to provide stats anyway. [/blockquote][blockquote]
[/blockquote][blockquote]Maybe its the basic pitch event model itself that makes it complicated to provide an event editor. Currently, play events are subcategories to pitches. Wouldn't it be better to organize events by batter and have pitches and plays as a subcategory of at bat events? This may provide a better model to build an event editor around as well as a distributed app. [/blockquote][blockquote]
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Oh, don't forget a "Save as" function in case the events are edited incorrectly and you need to recover the entire game.
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We do not understand what you mean by not having an event editor. If you go to the Play by Play listing, you can change the way players made it to base (from base hit to an error for example), or the way an out was made (fixing who made the play, force outs vs tag outs, etc).

We have been recording using only iScore for 2 seasons now (Spring and Fall) as well as several MLB games, and have not experienced the kinds of issues you are describing above. We know many iScore users do the same.

The only "shared experience" we have envisioned is having someone recording pitches (location, speed, pitch type) being separate from the person recording the plays. Sometimes when there are complex plays, entering full pitch information and also the entire play can be tricky. In that case, not entering the pitch information is the preferred approach as the "official scorekeeper" does not need to record that information anyway --- it is extra, above and beyond what is required to properly score a game.


Thank you for your feedback.

I have been able to edit plays after the fact, without using undo, by going to the "pitch by pitch" section (under Game Manager). Of course, you cannot change a play in a way that affects the outcome, like if a player got on base, you cannot change the play so that the player was out. That would leave you with four outs in the inning, and, in my opinion, there's no way you would have been able to score that 4th out, because it didn't really happened in the first place, the player wouldn't have come to bat. But you can change the official way a player got on base (hit to error, error to hit, etc.).
If I am misunderstanding your question or comment, please let me know. This community excels in trying to help one another

Clarification: you can not insert or delete plays. Example, I could not convert a 2nd to home base steel to two plays: a steel to 3rd and a run home on an error by the 3rd baseman. There are probably even more examples. But, I'd prefer to leave that open ended.

Also, I would suggest not restricting editing if it affects the outcome. In little league, i'd prefer to see more accurate stats of what the players did in particular situations even if that may add a 4th out or remove an out from the inning. My suggestion, for the interpretation of this by the software is that the inning ended.

I'm glad your looking at putting pitch recording on a second device. Also, I hope to see some form of monitoring function where one or more iPhones get updates. Otherwise, the iScorer will remain overwhelmed trying to enter data and answer questions about what happened.

> We have been recording using only iScore for 2 seasons now (Spring and Fall) as well as several
> MLB games, and have not experienced the kinds of issues you are describing above. We know
> many iScore users do the same..


First. I like your product. But, I've come to terms that sometimes I will not record the plays accurately and that I will not be able to reconcile them via Edit. Regardless, the stats produced are fantastic! My comments were in reference to recording little league AA games during Fall ball practice seasons. Some of the problems you run into that lead to lag are and less accurate recording of play are:

1) the opposing team doesn't have the jersey numbers assigned in the line up.
2) players show up late and are inserted into the lineup
3) players are assigned new positions each inning.
4) coaches ask you stat questions when you are still recording data
5) I have a classic iPhone.
6) Sometimes pushing an iScore button can take nearly 5 seconds or more.
7) The application will exit unexpectedly and you'll have to restart it

In this context, I've come to terms with "Good Enough" versus "Accuracy". When the app lags or the player flux causes me to lag, I skip a few steps or don't necessarily record the play accurately. I even accept that the stats of the opposing team will be completely mixed up.

rkenning,
I also have a classic, or first generation iPhone. About your issue number 7, I used to experienced unexpected exits a lot, and found that, when I am going to score a game, I turn off the iPhone completely (by holding the top button and then sliding the screen when it asks), then turn the phone back on. This has eliminated the unexpected exits. I can score games and not experience a single crash. This procedure also makes the program much more responsive, which I believe will help with your issue number 6.
Hope this helps.