UI enhancements to help alleviate getting behind

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LDScott
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UI enhancements to help alleviate getting behind

Post by LDScott » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:19 pm

Hi guys, thanks so much for such a great product!

iPad v3.09

I've just started trying to keep score for my 10yr old's games, Mustang - (Pony rules). I'm on about my 5th game or so. I've never scored so I'm learning some rules and the app at the same time, so please bare with me.

My typical setup, is 6 innings, 9 fielders, 9 to 12 players - all batting, play sounds - on, Pitch Location First - yes, Record Hit Locations - yes, View from Behind - Catcher, Skin - Light, Mode - Baseball.

Overall, I love it and highly recommend it. However, there are a few things that are frustrating and make it difficult to keep up with the game, especially when it gets "crazy."

1. There absolutely needs to be a BACK or PREVIOUS button in addition to a CANCEL button on the "Out" and "In Play" screens. Most plays are only a few clicks to have to redo if you make a mistake and need to cancel, or undo. However, it's critical during multi-touch, multi-runner situations. You can be 10 or 12 clicks or screens into it, and just about to finish the sequence of events, then forget to advance one runner, or choose the wrong reason button in haste, and realize, there is no way to continue without re-entering the whole thing all over again. Very frustrating, and more importantly, takes precious time and often causes you to fall behind. It gets really bad when your behind, and it's hit after hit, while you're trying to re-enter, remember pitch locations, hit locations, and multiple touches, all while your catching up. And wouldn't you know it, that's just when a controversy arises, and your scorekeeping is actually needed. (Just happened to me yesterday) :oops: Anyway, a BACK or PREVIOUS button would be a huge help!
1a. On the main scoring screen when you press UNDO, it could ask, on two separate buttons like the MISC button works, "Go back one step?" or "Undo the whole Play?" so that it not only maintains the way it works now for those times when it's just easier to re-enter the whole thing, but also adds the ability to just go back a few steps rather than completely re-enter.

2. Can the hit placement be first, before anything else? I find it a bit clumsy to have to decide what happened and then go back and say where it was hit. If you have "Record Hit Locations" = yes, either way, once I press OUT or IN PLAY, the hit happens first. When I'm in a hurry, since I always seem to get behind, it causes just a little bit of extra time loss because it derails my train of thought. It's usually the first thing I stop recording, right along with pitch tracking, in order to catch up. Now, if only I could just go back a step and not ever have to re-enter the pitch and hit again, I wouldn't loose those stats and probably not get as far behind. ;)

3. The text for "What happened to the ..." needs to be more consistent and easier to read at a glance. As it is now, third base and second base are pretty much identical with the top line of text ending in "third" or "second." However, first's top line of text ends in "base," and batter's text ends like second and third, but its text is dropped down a bit closer to the Out/Safe toggle, and the players name and number are in a larger font. None of that is a very big deal, but it all requires just a bit more reading than glancing. I suggest a little diamond in the upper right or left next to and under the text, like Pitch by Pitch, but not squished and simpler looking so that it's easier to read which base iScore is asking about. The dot or lit up base could also have an arrow pointing toward the next base, or blink, or animate, you get the idea. At the very least, the text itself could be more "glance" friendly by simply making certain key words Bold or ALL CAPS or both.

For ex. "What happened to the RUNNER that was on FIRST base,"

4. While scoring a game where everyone bats, and not having the offensive sub screen any more:
If you've been able to enter the lineup with out numbers, when tapping the better to add the number, the batter in question is not highlighted. For the most part, easy enough to figure out, but again, something you have to figure out and certainly not as easy as it already being highlighted, like it should be.

5. While we are on the subject of highlighted batter, could the indication of which batter is up, in the team list section, portrait on top and landscape to the left of the diamond, be more clear as well? Subtle is great, but IMO it's too subtle, especially during the day. Maybe the bar it becomes when you click on it for the player card? Then darker or lighter, depending on skin setting, to maintain the positive feedback it has now for a successful click? Or perhaps an outlined rectangle for indication and then it becomes solid with a click?

6. During game scoring, the Lineup, Scorecard, and Stats all default to Home rather than which ever team is batting. The Lineup and Scorecard are the most important. Stats could go either way. If the "proper" place to make changes in batting order and player info, is the Lineup, then doesn't it follow, when I press Lineup, it should not only take me to the proper team, but also the current batter, by highlight or arrow? And, I may be wrong, but I would think, if one needs to check the Scorecard, it's most likely going to be the team that is currently being scored. I know that's true for me. I find the Scorecard much easier and, most importantly, quicker to read than hundreds of lines of text from Pitch by Pitch. It's beautiful, and always makes everyone I show it to, envious of how nice it looks. Very Cool!

7. Could you add the position number diagram, that's on a paper scorecard, to the Quick Outs screen and the Scorecard view. Also, the scorecard and stat legends are not displayed on their respective views. In fact, the only place they seem to be accessible is through email or the instructions, but not in the app itself.

None of these things by themselves are very time consuming, except the lack of a BACK or PREVIOUS button. All together though, which seems to have been the case for me these last 5 games, the cumulative delay it all causes makes it very easy to get behind. I am getting better with each game, but there always seems to be something. ;)

I think I may be coming to the end of my character limit here. :oops: I did not expect to write such a long winded email. I hope you realize with all my "complaints," that it's only because I really like the app and feel it's worth the effort.

Thanks.
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OhioTex
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Re: UI enhancements to help alleviate getting behind

Post by OhioTex » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:29 am

You are defineatly getting to know iscore! Please keep up the contributions!

Thought I would echo some points and also toss in a bonus tip (item 1)

1) tip- shake to cancel.....although IPad has the screen real estate to add more cancel buttons, early on the iPhone did not, so FTM slipped in a "shake to cancel" feature. (On the iPhone it felt good, oh crud- i messed up, shake to erase/go back.. Bit more cumbersome on the iPad to shake ... May be worth FTM revisiting if it can create more cancel buttons on tablet versions)

2) perhaps the hit location could pop up first after in play, but not sure I would have it pop up after out. Good argument could be made 'scoring as you see it' the location happens before the other things. +1 vote.

3) agree with your example. +1 vote. FTM has tweaked the text over time, but even more OFFSET, BOLD- ALL CAP text could help. Would probably keep it simple and just bold cap, but if there are better more graphic ways good, the idea is just 'more at a glance'.

4) nice observation, highlight on entry +1 vote

5) less critical to me, but see where some may like/help +0 vote.

6) may be on to something.. +? vote.... may help in opening scorecard to batting team, on stats perhaps too, (though you could be looking up defensive stats) .. On starting line up open to batting team makes sense too, BUT when in game I disagree starting line up is the place you are " suppose to go", that is suppose to be done pre game and then use substitution screens in game so I would not invest in highlighting current batter when pulling up the line up screen, because it is NOT the substitution screen. ( Different screen than 5 above)

..... on a similar note, teams generally announce starting line ups visitors first, home second - i have often wondered if intial line up review screen at start of game should be visitors first then home ...

7) +o vote. fyi - FTM has historically tried to de emphasize the 'traditional number scheme', don't see 6-4-3 double play in play by play..or i scorecast ...quick outs and the PDF score card are exception rather than the rule.

X)
shake to cancel tip, for next time.
These developers seem to thrive on user feedback..
Glad some one wrote a longer post than me....
I think you implied pitch tracking, if so and you are doing, you are way ahead of the curve and realize many get behind

.....Please continue to be an active participant, you have only scratched the surface

OhioTex

7)
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FTMSupport
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Re: UI enhancements to help alleviate getting behind

Post by FTMSupport » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:25 am

Thank you for the suggestions. We will keep them in mind as we continue to improve iScore. Just to address a couple...

On #2, with both In Play and Out, there are cases where hit location is not used at all. We can not present the hit location screen unless we know the play requires it. You would not want to Tap Out, and have the Hit Location screen pop up when you planned to enter a Strikeout, Batting Out of Turn, Thrown Bat, Out of Box, Fan Interference, and possibly others. Likewise you would not want the Hit Location screen to appear when Safe is pressed, and you intend to enter Walk, Intentional Walk, Hit By Pitch, Dropped 3rd Strike Options, Catcher Obstuction.

We ask things in the order we do to try and optimize the whole process.

On #6, we actually prefer to open things in a consistent way rather than opening to different screens depending on who is at bat. We can not assume anything about what you are looking for when you open the scorecard or stats. It seems to be pretty equal that a coach will ask a question about a pitcher or a hitter in the stats, or what happened to someone the previous inning, or any myriad of situations. It seems better from a UI perspective to open things in a consistent way, and the user will get used to the way it is opened and know exactly what to expect rather than changing the experience when the button is tapped and the user having to think about why the experience changed.
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LDScott
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Re: UI enhancements to help alleviate getting behind

Post by LDScott » Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:40 pm

Thank you both, OhioTex and FTM, for the encouragement and feedback! Great insights! It is greatly appreciated.

OhioTex
On #7, really, +0 vote for displaying information? Especially the stat legends that are already included in the email, but no where in the app? De-emphisized or not, quick out is functionality that is unusable without instruction. But a simple picture makes it highly accessible and interpretable to everyone, in app. Isn't that why it's on a paper scorebook?


FTM
I'm sorry if I implied that you did not try to optimize. I was simply tying to convey how it could be more optimized for me, and wanting to share, in case others may feel the same. Thanks for making me see some things from a different perspective.

While I can agree on the reasons for both points, I still feel there is a case to be made for both, too.

On #2, if hit tracking did come up first, and if there was a "NO HIT" button added, then the list of safe or outs could be parsed down even further, which would allow for quicker location and entry of what situation you are looking for. Plus, it would have the benefit of giving you more real estate for listing things you would like to add or have already cut from your current list, due to lack of space or applicability! Functionally, I think it would have to be an extra press or button, because, as you pointed out, you would not want to make the same kind of assumption based on a lack of input and simply hitting next without a ball position, because the user may just be skipping it on purpose.

On #6, I now fully see what you mean here and agree that consistency is the best way to achieve that. However, I feel that, in game, having Lineup and Scorecard display who is currently being scored, is more akin to changing the experience the same way that you do for quick outs, for instance. What you get when you swipe OUT changes depending on runners. Nobody questions it, because it's intuitive. I feel that displaying the Lineup or the Scorecard for the at bat team is just as natural and intuitive and not "Whoa, why did it show me that?"

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate it!
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OhioTex
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Re: UI enhancements to help alleviate getting behind

Post by OhioTex » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:45 am

On 7. Yep, I like the idea just not as much others. And I really like the fresh ideas ( not been suggested in the forum before to my recollection)

Why not more 'votes' because I believe who ever is scoring should already know the traditional position chart as a basic pre requisite to being able to score effectively. FTM and I most likely disagree on this point, and they have tried to de-emphasize the traditional position numbers to make scoring easier and less dependent on that presumptive knowledge. So in that light, FTM may like the idea of the position chart on quick outs and scorecard more, as those are places they have not been able to avoid using the classic numbers.

On stats legend, the priority points for the stat legends are At the points of distribution, email and web site (email has been there since day 1, web site link added recently). the need for legend on the device is the operator, most likely to already know and if not has ready access to learn it from the emails. Again, adding this in could help some, just would not prioritize over other ideas, like the TEXT OFFSET suggestion..

Just my two cents and context for my perspective on that one..
LittleLeagueMom
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Re: UI enhancements to help alleviate getting behind

Post by LittleLeagueMom » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:45 pm

LDScott...we are living parallel lives! I too am learning how to score and use this app for 8 year olds! I love it and our coaches love it even more but one wrong tap and it all goes bad.

1. There absolutely needs to be a BACK or PREVIOUS button in addition to a CANCEL button on the "Out" and "In Play" screens. I can not tell you how many times I have had crazy, crazy plays that involved multiple players, multiple throws and multiple bases and I get to the very end and accidently tap ONE wrong button/player and I have to hit cancel to start it all over again. Assuming I can actually remember what occured just minutes before, by the time I get it all entered again I am seriously behind on the next crazy play....Would be great if the out and in-play sequences included an undo button like the pick-off attempt entry does.
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team mom
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Re: UI enhancements to help alleviate getting behind

Post by team mom » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:32 am

This is on FTM's list of considerations. In the meantime, try the "shake" method to undo your last entry. I still like the idea of a "back" button as I do not know how far back the "shake" will work. A back button could be pressed for as many steps as needed.
Team Mom

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LittleLeagueMom
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Re: UI enhancements to help alleviate getting behind

Post by LittleLeagueMom » Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:06 am

Unfotunately shaking seems to cancel the entire sequence just like cancel does, not just the previously hit play (like held up, tagged out, etc.) will anxiously await for the ability to undo just the last action pressed.
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team mom
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Re: UI enhancements to help alleviate getting behind

Post by team mom » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:13 am

Is it my imagination or did FTM add an "undo" button on the hit location/play screen? This solved the issue discussed above. I marked the wrong fielders making the out on a complicated play. I was able to hit undo and correct the positions without going to the beginning of the play!
Team Mom

Check out the new iscore documentation page!
Includes videos and user manual.
http://iscoresports.com/baseball/training.php#docs
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OhioTex
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Re: UI enhancements to help alleviate getting behind

Post by OhioTex » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:12 am

undo is on the "the fielders involved in the out screen".
not the location screen, but on location screen you just retouch, so undo not as critical.
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