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the ball is hit hard and make a bad bounce in front of the short stop who receives the ball on his shoulder and could not handle the ball properly while the runner gets safe at first base.
Error or base hit?

Hard to say without seeing the play. Per MLB rules, ORDINARY EFFORT is the effort that a fielder of average skill at a position in that league or classification of leagues should exhibit on a play, with due consideration given to the condition of the field and weather conditions. Could the ball have been handled with ordinary effort? This sounds like a judgment call for the scorekeeper.

The Short Stop is an over average skill player.
We have here a strong ground ball that would have been be easy for this player to catch and make the play at 1B for an out, BUT... because of the bad bounce, the player couldn't handle the ball properly and the batter is safe at 1B

Hit or error??

Same question as before... would an average player have been able to make the play? If yes, it's an error. If no, it's a hit. A bad bounce off a sprinkler head or where the grass meets the dirt can make a normally easy play not playable, and the player would not be charged an error if ordinary effort would not have gotten the out.

This is scorekeeper's judgment as team mom has been saying for both your scoring questions.

I would give that a hit if it was truly a bad bounce which made the ball unplayable.

triple wrote:The Short Stop is an over average skill player.

You may not have been intending this to play a part in the decision, but I see it all too often. The ability of the fielder plays no part in the decision of hit or error (sometimes who the fielder is related to does, but that's another story). Bill James talks quite a bit about the misuse of fielding error stats because it requires the athlete to recognize the play off the bat and get in position to make an error. A poor fielder might not have even gotten into position to make the error. The way I see it, if the play should have been made with reasonable effort, it is an error. If outside influences, such as poor weather and/or field condition, change the direction of the ball, it's a hit.

Rule 10.05 (c)
Rules state to record it as a base hit if it takes unatural bounce and cannot be handled by ordinary effort. I almost always rule these types of hit balls as base hits because fielder usually cannot react and adjust naturally with ordinary effort to make play.

elcray wrote: Bill James talks quite a bit about the misuse of fielding error stats because it requires the athlete to recognize the play off the bat and get in position to make an error. A poor fielder might not have even gotten into position to make the error.

Baseball analysts used to talk all the time about how Ozzie Smith would get charged with a lot of errors on balls that lesser short stops would just turn and watch roll into the outfield. You can't take the individual player's skill into account, but the skill of the average player AT THAT LEVEL of play.

Had a similar discussion with a HS softball scorekeeper and we eventually reached the conclusion that it was perfectly OK to apply different standards when scoring a JV game than you would use for scoring a Varsity game. At the Varsity level, the expected skill level is higher.

I see a similar thing in A+ California League baseball. I have seen hits given when if it had been at the MLB level it most likely would have been scored an error.