Some newbie questions

[Joe Siegler]

I've been a user of another scoring software package for ages. Going back to when the Palm Pilot was the dominant PDA "thingie" out there. I stayed with the software there for a very long time, well past the point of my using the Palm as a regular device. They came out with an iPhone version, and have been "promising" some big update since the 2009 season. They're enormously distant in terms of real news. While it is not technically this, it "feels" like abandoned software. To that, I've been looking around at other options for the upcoming software.

Last night I found the iScore for the iPad software here. It looks good, but I wanted to ask some questions. I had a look around, and while I didn't read every single bit of text available, I did try to avoid questions already out there. So here they go (forgive the green in some of these):

1) Is there a demo of this software? I'd like to try it first, as baseball scoring is very much an individual, personal thing, so what someone thinks is awesome might not be how I (or someone else feels) about how it should be done. I wouldn't want to get the software, and then find I don't care for it. If there isn't a demo, perhaps you could consider a demo version for the future that is limited to just a single game. You can score one, but not any more. Additionally, this list of questions probably would have been mostly avoided had I had the ability to try it out for myself.

2) Must I do the pitch tracking (speed/location/type)? While I recognize that's useful to some, that's info that's beyond my threshold of caring about. Can you do just ball/strike, and ignore the tracking stuff?

3) Is there an option to track pickoff moves during at bats, and can you designate which base that was at? The other software counted that as a "pitch" by default. It could be "turnoffable", but counting a pickoff attempt as a pitch seems silly to me.

4) Is there an out option for "Didn't see?" or "Don't know" or something like that? Occasionally I'll miss one, and I prefer to put the "?" option in there, and then when I find out what happened, go back and edit. Is this possible?

5) I saw where there's an option to click on a player and his stats from ESPN are shown. Does this also show stats for JUST games I score? Or does it just show the ESPN stats - or both?

6) What about roster changes in season? I assume if I buy the stats package this is taken care of, but if I do not, can you move a player from one team to another, or do you have to create the player again on the other team?

7) Can you have more than one game open at once? I've sometimes scored games that I have recorded on the TiVo at home, but don't always do it in one sitting. Can you be scoring more than one at a time?

8) Is there an option to have an official scoring change? Or do you have to back to the at-bat, undo the result, and "re-do" it? The other software I used had a nice option where you can go to an atbat and issue a scoring change, which was more graceful than undo, change, etc...

9) Is there a graceful way to do double switches? While I live in an AL team town (Texas Rangers), and most of the games I score are ones with a DH, when I do score an NL game, the other software didn't handle double switches well.

10) Do you have to buy the iPad version and the iPhone version separately? Is there a package deal if you buy both? I don't usually take my iPad to the ballpark, I prefer to take the phone, but at home I want to use the iPad, I'd want to sync games scored at the park with the iPhone back to the iPad as my "base", so to speak.

11) Does the program keep previously scored games on the device forever? If not, what happens to them? I kind of liked being able to go back and look at any previously scored game, since they never went away unless I deliberately deleted them.

12) Finally, and I realize this is a total pipedream, and I'd be SHOCKED if you said yes to this.. I don't suppose there's any way to import all my old "other software scored" Palm and iOS scored games into here, is there? I'd love to not have to keep all that old stuff around in a separate program.

I do have to say I like seeing the support offered here, where it was virtually non existant from the other company. That's a major plus.

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Joe Siegler
rangerfans.com

[jcbeckman]

I'll answer the ones I can and I'm sure FTM will also chime in:


1) The App Store doesn't allow demo versions. There are videos available at http://iscore.fasterthanmonkeys.com/training.jsp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2) No, just ignore it. You don't have to score pitch location or anything about it.

3) Don't know if you can track attempts; of course you can track actual pick offs (or ones that go bad and advance a runner. Not something I need to track.

4) No, you can't skip a play. But you could enter something close and edit it later.

5) There are numerous ways to see the stats and filter them based on grouping you make.

6) Good question - I haven't tried, and I don't see a way to move a player.

7) No, one game at a time.

8) You can edit, and add a note as to what happened. Not sure what else you are looking for with a "scoring change."

9) Not sure what you'd consider "graceful" - double switches are annoying no matter how you do them.

10) They are separate programs and have to be bought separately (the iPhone version works on the iPad, but you'll want the actual iPad version). The App Store doesn't allow "bundle" deals.

11) They stay until you get rid of them, if ever.

12) No import capabilities that I know of.

[Joe Siegler]

1) The App Store doesn't allow demo versions.

Not as such, no - but a lot of developers have a "free" version - a separate app that has the limitations in there. So yes, there are demos, just not in the classic sense of the word.

4) No, you can't skip a play. But you could enter something close and edit it later.

I wasn't looking to skip the play. In the other software, one of the "out conditions" is "Didn't see" (beyond the things like groundout, flyball, strikeout, etc), which results in a question mark on the scorecard for that play. It can be edited later, but it's good to get past the current play if you didn't see it, and can't immediately find out what happened.

9) Not sure what you'd consider "graceful" - double switches are annoying no matter how you do them.

Well, initiate a double switch where it asks you questions about "Well, OK, you're bringing in hitter X in position 7 in the lineup. What do you want to do about the pitcher, and what slot in the lineup will he go to?" Double switches involved about 4 steps. Was a big pain, and to be honest, I hated scoring live games with double switches, because the game usually got past you by the time you've figured it out.

[FTMSupport]

To answer the few unanswered questions...

3. Yes, you can track pickoff attempts. Tap the runner, tap Pickoff Attempt.

4. One of the "Out" choices is "Other". You can use that as a placeholder and go back and fill in the real reason for the out later.

6. Yes, you can put a player on another roster during the season without recreating the player. When creating your rosters, you select from a "pool of players" so do not need to re-enter players that are already in the system.

7. You can have multiple unfinished games going at a time. You can not have two up on the screen at the same time, but you do not have to complete one before scoring the next... you can always go back and continue scoring a previously started game.

[FTMSupport]

fyi... we would appreciate if you could edit your original post to just say "another product". We try not to mention any competitors products specifically, whether the mentions are good or bad, just as a general policy on the board... thank you.

[Joe Siegler]

fyi... we would appreciate if you could edit your original post to just say "another product". We try not to mention any competitors products specifically, whether the mentions are good or bad, just as a general policy on the board... thank you.

Fair enough. I considered that when posting, but thought since I was slagging them off, you wouldn't care.

Tkx for info. It still would be nice to have a free version with a one game limit to check out ahead of time, though.

[OhioTex]

I take a day off and miss a great thread... Welcome Joe.

Jbeckman and FTM (of course) I think answered all the specific points. So I am going to be a bit more blunt than normal, as you appear to be a seasoned veteran of electronic baseball scoring.... take the 10$ risk, and try it. And then become an active member of the forum to help evolve it with quality improvement suggestions..

This is a real program with real users. And developers who for the last 18+ months have demonstrated, oustanding customer service, and support and continue to support the product every few months with big enhancements (not just minor/ bug fixes). For me, it is the best iPhone/iPad baseball scoring option out there. And the best customer service i have ever experienced in software. Plus there are very active, helpful and friendly real world users of the program that contribute here on a daily basis as you can see...

I suggest the iPad version ( if you have an iPad) because just better on the bigger screen. Functionally the two versions are the same, just iPad let's you see multiple screens at a time. but if you want to save money, the iPhone version runs on both in 2x mode. the price of one download. (I suspect down the road the two will merge to one universal app, but FTM has never indicated such, so I would not wait)

Most all of your questions got answered on the positive. Iscore can do.. But

The iscore approach is different than your prior palm version. iscore, takes a "score it as you see it approach" - neat for new users. you will find some things easier than xyz program you used and some harder/ different. That is the reality. There is a learning curve. Once you get used to doing it one way, it takes work to unlearn and learn another way, but unless you stick with same vendor , that is likely the case for any different program.

The other bad reality, is only way to merge other programs stats with iscore stats is outside of both apps in excel. Iscore has great export to excel (and maxpress) capabilities, but no import capabilities, and I have not seen any indication they would develop such ( too many options and other priorities) .

if you find you like the "score it as you see it" approach, you can then consider buying the other device version, team web sites, or MLB subscriptions... Or cut your loss and try something else. But for ten dollars I think you will instead go.... Wow, i use to pay hundreds for such.

I would be glad to help more, if you explain how you plan to use... Are you a coach? An official scorer? A parent? A sofa scorer? And what level of ball you score, youth, high school, pro, minors, talking baseball, fast pitch, slow pitch? etc etc.

Regards,
OhioTex

[Joe Siegler]

Jbeckman and FTM (of course) I think answered all the specific points. So I am going to be a bit more blunt than normal, as you appear to be a seasoned veteran of electronic baseball scoring.... take the 10$ risk, and try it. And then become an active member of the forum to help evolve it with quality improvement suggestions..

I already did that. I bought the iPad version yesterday. With the other program being iPhone specific, I used it on my iPad yes, but it looked like crap, so an ipad native was the big draw to me.

I have one game still sitting on my TiVo, that being Game 3 of the most recent World Series. I manually entered the lineups in, and when I get a chance over the next couple of days, I'll score it. Since I was *AT* the game, I never scored it (with it being a World Series game, I foregoed my usual scoring of games I attend, since it was my first ever WS game, I wanted to just enjoy the atmosphere). Anyway, once I get a chance to actually score a game with this, I'll probably have some further remarks.

This is a real program with real users. And developers who for the last 18+ months have demonstrated, oustanding customer service, and support and continue to support the product every few months with big enhancements (not just minor/ bug fixes).

Yeah, I've noticed that. Said other software has forums, but it's mostly users whining about the company not issuing any substantial updates. It was one of the selling points in my mind when I was considering this.

I would be glad to help more, if you explain how you plan to use... Are you a coach? An official scorer? A parent? A sofa scorer? And what level of ball you score, youth, high school, pro, minors, talking baseball, fast pitch, slow pitch? etc etc.

I pretty much score just MLB games, and ones I either attend, or a handful of games from home. So I guess I fit under "sofa scorer" in your list above.

[OhioTex]

Congrats on the world series game in person. (yes I am jealous)

Thanks for the explanation of your use.. Helps me target response and tips better..

We have a number of users who score mlb games live, in person and on the sofa..plus we have some users who do "table top games" and have done lots of historical scoring that way. (I am not one of them, and may have even called it the wrong thing, if so- sorry)

As a MLB scorer, you probably won't want to invest in "team web site" or "player profile" subscriptions as They tend to be most useful for team coaches/managers or player/parents who need away to track their youth teams..

You however most likely will want to invest in the "MLB package for 2011" when it comes out (would not buy 2010 version unless you plan on scoring more than a few world series games from last year). The package is sold year by year. I bought 2009 to experiment with it but not 2010 as i use for youth games and do not score MLB. That said, if you do score MLB games, it is a valuable option to have. Every day team rosters and line ups get updated with call ups trades, etc. Sure it does not catch them all, instantly, as some teams submit rosters very very late, but from what I can tell pretty darn reliable. This is one of the biggest benefits espn brought to the table when FTM partnered with them, access to better MLB data.

With the tv broadcast giving a pitch tracking box, you may find neat to include pitch speed, location info on that game despite saying normally (like me) you do not track that.. Kinda hard from regular person seats in the stands.. But for world series game, you may get that info spoon fed to you..

Again, welcome to the board. And the product. Feel free to chime in, ask questions and share your ideas and learning...I have found the iscore product to be valuable as a MLB fan, youth baseball coach, and youth parent and official scorer for both baseball and fast pitch softball. (also a closet saber metric stat junkie, and part time web head).