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Runner on 3rd. Batter swings, catches lets ball get away from him and rolls several feet from the plate. He hesitates before throwing to first, sees runner coming home and tosses to pitcher covering plate, run scores. Is this an error on catcher. Throw was a little wide but if a good throw runner would probably been out. This is high school varsity game.

coach1 wrote:Runner on 3rd. Batter swings, catches lets ball get away from him and rolls several feet from the plate. He hesitates before throwing to first, sees runner coming home and tosses to pitcher covering plate, run scores. Is this an error on catcher. Throw was a little wide but if a good throw runner would probably been out. This is high school varsity game.

Let us break the action in parts.
1) The pitch was a third strike which dropped behind the catcher. First question: is it a wild pitch or a passed ball? Would the pitch be caught with ordinary effort? If yes the ball is passed.
2) The runner, who was supposed not stealing home before the pitch, tries to get home after the pitch is dropped. The catcher throws to the plate but the throw is not in time. The question is: should the runner be SURELY out on a good throw? You answered already the question. The throw was A LITTLE wide (not a bad throw) and the runner PROBABLY would have been out. Probably, but you are NOT sure. No error can be assigned in that case.

My conclusion: batter runner safe a first on a strike out passed ball; runner safe home on a passed ball.

Bye, Roberto

Am not sure the dropped third strike counts as a passed ball.

From the MLB rules...

6.09
The batter becomes a runner when --
(b) The third strike called by the umpire is not caught, providing (1) first base is unoccupied, or (2) first base is occupied with two out;
Rule 6.09(b) Comment: A batter who does not realize his situation on a third strike not caught, and who is not in the process of running to first base, shall be declared out once he leaves the dirt circle surrounding home plate.

So in the situation described in this thread, the batter reaches first on a dropped third strike (still counts as a strikeout in the pitching stats, the batter is safe, no passed ball or error).

The catcher's throw to home on the steal attempt is a separate incident and could be called a throwing error on the catcher (in Project Scorebook lingo, E2THH) or not, depending, as already noted, on the quality of the throw.

Hope I've got this right but if not, please chime in.

Alan_A wrote:Am not sure the dropped third strike counts as a passed ball.

From the MLB rules...

6.09
The batter becomes a runner when --
(b) The third strike called by the umpire is not caught, providing (1) first base is unoccupied, or (2) first base is occupied with two out;
Rule 6.09(b) Comment: A batter who does not realize his situation on a third strike not caught, and who is not in the process of running to first base, shall be declared out once he leaves the dirt circle surrounding home plate.

So in the situation described in this thread, the batter reaches first on a dropped third strike (still counts as a strikeout in the pitching stats, the batter is safe, no passed ball or error).

The catcher's throw to home on the steal attempt is a separate incident and could be called a throwing error on the catcher (in Project Scorebook lingo, E2THH) or not, depending, as already noted, on the quality of the throw.

Hope I've got this right but if not, please chime in.

That's the way I scored it but the other team score keeper didn't record it as an error on catcher. That was the only way I could account for run scored. If throw had gone to first but runner beat it and runner scores would that be recorded as stolen bas on runner from 3b to home?

According to NFCA Fastpitch scoring rules (MLB rules are usually consistent) "No error is charged if other runners advance on a dropped third
strike when the batter is out. No error is charged when the batter is not out. A passed ball or wild pitch is charged."

If the play had been made at first (batter safe or out) and the player from third advanced home, that run would be scored as a fielder's choice.

Team Mom has it right. There is no error charged on a passed ball or wild pitch. It is the passed ball or wild pitch that allows the batters / runners to advance.

team mom wrote:If the play had been made at first (batter safe or out) and the player from third advanced home, that run would be scored as a fielder's choice.

Just a small correction to the perfect reconstruction of Team_mom (from Taxi_dad ☺):
if the batter was safe the passed ball would be charged to catcher; if the batter is out no passed ball is charged and run is granted on fielder's choice.
Bye Roberto

I learned yara ago, team mom =right.

Especially on Catcher plays

(grin)