Editing games

[Coachsteve]

Well Iscore, what your reply tells me is several people fell the same way. Sorry, I don't buy your example. Reason is editing is done PITCH by PITCH! If you correct a mistake in the pitch it will not ripple because you are fixing the pitch it occurred on. So in your example all you would have to do is go back to the pitch and correct the out, which happened in the game. Biggest thing is with the edit capabilities there now you can change game stats, like creating an error instead of a hit, FC, bunt to single etc... So what your telling me is there is no ripple effects doing that? It's the same thing fixing the game with full edit capabilities. A players stats can be affected like BA K's etc... At least if there was an option to turn on full edit would be nice. I have used this app many years and these are the stats I use when I send information to College's, it is a good product and always recommend it. I just want the product to work like it should.

[FTMSupport]

We feel the same way as well... we would love to allow you to edit anything at any time. The problem is that there IS a ripple effect. We are sorry you are not understanding what we mean by this. We will try and give you another example so you can hopefully understand our point.

Let's say game is over, and you go back and start editing a random inning. Let's say you go back to the beginning of the 3rd inning, and there is a runner on first base, and you decide that instead of him being safe at first, he should have been out, so you change him from being safe at first to being Out at first. You now have 4 Outs in that inning. Let's say the following batter had hit a home run. What happens to all the events that were in the database for the runner he should have driven in that is now no longer on the basebpath? What if you had that runner stealing bases or there were pickoff attempts? The game is now in an inconsistent / impossible state.

Let's do the opposite... you go back and decide that a runner should have been safe at first instead of out. Now you only have two outs in the inning. Not only that, but let's say the next batter hit a single... in the "events" for the game, you have that batter going to first, but there is no record of a runner having already been on base, so what do you do about the fact that now there are two runners occupying first base? It's a ripple effect throughout the game.

You will come back and say that you will correct those things, but our response is that many users won't know how. We have to do everything we can to not allow users to make that kind of mistake or else we will spend all day undoing user's mistakes. We are not going to introduce functionality that is going to allow people to put games in an inconsistent state and increase support as a result because we have to spend hours trying to figure out what users did vs what they intended to do.

We will continue taking baby steps toward allowing more and more "safe" edits that do not cause issues as we can identify them.

You can always manually override statistics for any game if you have scored something completely wrong and do not want to undo to fix the issue or if the editing we do have does not allow you to fix it.

[Coachsteve]

Good, better examples... However, the program is recorded by innings which is in turn pitch by pitch. If you are correcting the mistake out to safe etc... You are correcting the "inconsistencys" of the game. So what you (FTM) are saying is to just keep going with an incorrect game instead of being able to fix it. Again, full edit capabilities would allow you to simply correct perhaps 2 or 3 pitches. I would rather do that than input the entire game again. I have been using iscore for a long time and it seems as if we used to be able to do this, as some other users pointed out in thier post. I believe you are overthinkg your product. I have been cruzing your FAQ and see several similar request. So by not allowing more functionality it looks like it is costing you a lot of support. What is putting the games in an inconsistent state is limited functionality to correct games and FTM not allowing the access to do this. I can tell FTM is resistant to this option so I will continue to hope this issue will be fixed.

[Throwingas]

I think you should be able to EDIT anything!! Especially when we are trying to keep track of 11 & 12 year olds..... It is not like we are dealing with anything special.... We should be able to have that option....

[FTMSupport]

We allow logical edits that keep the game intact. If we start allowing editing of anything, then you wind up with the game in an inconsistent state where there is no possible way we can generate stats from the game. In order for us to generate stats, the game and all events of the game have to follow a logical flow. As soon as we allow something illogical in the game, then stats can no longer be calculated and can not be backed up by the events of the game.

We are not saying we do not want to allow more edits... quite the contrary, we do want to allow more edits. But we can not allow edits that put the game into a bad state or iScore is not doing its task.

As noted, we will continue adding more editing capability, but it is going to be baby steps.

Instead of just saying "iScore should allow more edits" or "iScore should allow me to edit anything", if you could start giving specific cases where an edit does not have a ripple effect, it is possible we could add those specific cases to the editing capabilities. We have done several of those over the years (as long time users would know). We have never made it so you could edit less than you used to be able to in previous versions.