Stat question - Calculating OBP

[wandacaron]

HI, I am trying to match the calculation for OBP. When I use the following formula I get a different % then the game stats show: (Hits + Walks + Hit by Pitch) / (At Bats + Walks + Hit by Pitch + Sacrifice). Does anyone know the calculation used in the program?

[FTMSupport]

That is almost correct. The Sacrifice on the divisor is only Sacrifice Flies --- Sacrifice Bunts are not included there. When calculating hits, be sure to include the Bunt Singles as well. So if you are looking at the iScore column headings, the calculation is:

( B + 1B + 2B + 3B + HR + BB + HBP ) / ( AB + BB + HBP + SF )

[CSThunderCoach]

Sacrifice bunts should be included in the Softball stats to be correct, but since 99% of applications don't most don't know that they should.

[oconnor.jb]

I don't see why Sac Bunt PA's should count against someone's OBP? In a Sac Bunt situation you are intentionally giving yourself up to advance a runner. You are not attempting to get on base.

Sac Fly's are tolerable by-products of attempting to get on base, so while they do help the team, it is still a failed attempt to get on base, and therefore should count against OBP.

[PetroGuy]

oconnor,

The calculation FTM shows accomplishes what you said. Sac flays 'hurt' OBP. The SF term is in the divisor but not the dividend. This means that more sac flys makes OBP lower. Sac bunts don't help OBP or hurt it. The sac bunt PA basically doesn't exist in the OBP calculation.

[oconnor.jb]

The calculation FTM shows accomplishes what you said. Sac flays 'hurt' OBP. The SF term is in the divisor but not the dividend. This means that more sac flys makes OBP lower. Sac bunts don't help OBP or hurt it. The sac bunt PA basically doesn't exist in the OBP calculation.

Yeah, I understood that. I was countering CSThunderCoach's claim that sac bunts SHOULD count against a player's OBP in softball.

[Egghead_#8]

The calculation FTM shows accomplishes what you said. Sac flays 'hurt' OBP. The SF term is in the divisor but not the dividend. This means that more sac flys makes OBP lower. Sac bunts don't help OBP or hurt it. The sac bunt PA basically doesn't exist in the OBP calculation.

Yeah, I understood that. I was countering CSThunderCoach's claim that sac bunts SHOULD count against a player's OBP in softball.

Correct. Even per the MLB rule book:
"(f) On base percentage, divide the total of hits, all bases on balls, and hit by pitch by the total of at bats, all bases on balls, hit by pitch and sacrifice flies.

NOTE: For the purpose of computing on base percentage, ignore being awarded first base on interference or obstruction."

Softball adds a difficult twist to the whole premise of sacrifice bunts with the existence of the "slapper" or even the player the only bunts RH every time for hits (the RH speedster who just puts it down on the ground and beats it out most every time). To me it's a very grey area determining when those 2 types of softball batters are truly giving themselves up to move a runner because they are bunting a majority of the time anyways. So they typically get the statistical advantage of not being charged an at-bat when a runner is advanced. I've read some will use a judgement on that one but I'm guessing that's for the opponent and not your own team's stats

[oconnor.jb]

I see the point (although I think "full time bunting" is a losing proposition as you move up the competition levels, so it's somewhat of a moot point), and I'd be willing to accept it if the world would accept the change I think needs to be made to the OBP calculation.

Code: Select all

              number of times reaching base
OBP  =   -----------------------------------
            number of attempts to get on base

with the (obvious to me) restriction that "Runs Scored" should always be less than or equal to "number of times reaching base".
Since the generally accepted OBP formula does not include Reached on Error or Reached on Fielder's Choice (or obstruction, interference, etc) in the numerator of the fraction, it is possible for a player to have scored more runs than the number of times they have (officially, according to OBP formaula) been on base. That just doesn't sit well with my inner mathematician. So, I think any event which allows the batter to reach base safely should be included in the numerator of OBP.

[FTMSupport]

OBP is a calculation of the number of times the batter has earned their way on base. Reaching on error is a defensive failure, not an offensive achievement.

[OhioTex]

OBP in iScore is calculated consistent with all major baseball and softball organizations definition that i have seen.
Coachthunder - do you have a source for a major softball org that differs?

In fast pitch softball slaps and bunts are not the same thing, the major organizations in fastpitch clearly differentiate. (slaps / slap attempts are treated like hits/hit attempts not bunts) especially with 2 strikes on the batter. a fouled third slap is a foul ball, and not an out like a fouled third bunt. Watch the batter's swing mechanics (and foot motion) ... slap does not equal bunt attempt, slap ground out is a ground out not a sac bunt with a runner on.