When is it no longer a steal?

[iscore@tragus.org]

Runner on 1st. Steals 2nd before the pitcher comes set. Batter flys out. Runner is
safe to stay. I'm good here.

Runner on 1st. Advances to 2nd on the hit. Batter flys out. Runner must go back to
1st before the defense gets the ball there or he is out. I'm good here too.

Here is the question: Runner on 1st. Breaks to 2nd as the pitcher releases. Batter
flys out. Does the runner need to go back? In other words, when is it no longer a
steal and now an advanced by batter?

Similarly, think of a guy stealing home & he touches the plate before the ball gets to the batter. He's safe, right? Even if it is strike three, the third out of the inning, the run still scores.

[TurboAg]

Your first scenario is very unusual; I don't recall ever seeing it. For this to work, the runner would have to have broken for, and arrived, at 2nd base before the pitcher began his delivery. In this case, he occupies 2nd base by virtue of a stolen base and does not have to return to 1st to tag because he was in possession of 2nd.

Second scenario, very common.

Third scenario is basically a repeat of the 2nd scenario. Since the runner would not have reached 2nd before the pitcher began his delivery, he must retouch the base he occupied when the ball was hit, i.e., first base.

Basically, a runner may only get a stolen base if he successfully advances "unaided by a hit, a putout, an error, a force-out, a fielder’s choice, a passed ball, a wild pitch or a balk" (MLB Rule 10.07).

[OhioTex]

Good points turboAg. I agree..

small additional thought

On scenario 1, It does sound far fetched, but an approximation is when a batter-runner is walked and takes two because defense not paying attention. (more common in softball and other shorter base distance youth leagues). A walk and a stolen base.

[iscore@tragus.org]

The first scenario is somewhat contrived but I was trying to cover all possibilities. We see it every now & then but it is usually more as the pitcher starts his delivery (e.g. -- the third scenario).

We've seen OhioTex's scenario a couple of times this season in our 10U league. The walked batter jogs to first then rounds the base & bolts for second before the defense realizes what's going on.

Can I summarize TurboAg in layman's terms as: If the bat comes into contact with the ball then it isn't a steal.

What about the stealing home scenario? Three outs, two strikes & runner on third. If the runner goes while the pitcher is in the stretch, windup, delivery, whatever & makes it home before the ball is he safe (and does the run count) if the batter strikes out?

[TurboAg]

"No dice, Chicago." The run does not score.

One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first,
second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning.
EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a
play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first
base... (MLB 4.09a)

[OhioTex]

nice post Turbo Ag

No I would not make that summary..,

Can I summarize TurboAg in layman's terms as: If the bat comes into contact with the ball then it isn't a steal.

Another example, that aligns with Turbo Ag post that happens more frequently.. . and gives merit to why no run scored

.. two out, runner at first, attempts to steal second, pitch is a third strike out .third out, No steal credited to baserunner.

[iscore@tragus.org]

Bummer

For others who may be following, 4.09a continues:
(2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.

So, if a player touches home in a play in which the third out is made the run does not score.

(Sorry, each answer brings up another question. I wish I had the rules memorized as well as you guys! I hope even more that our 10U umpires have the rules memorized as well as you guys!!)

[OhioTex]

Bummer

"bummer" depends if you were on offense or defense?.

[iscore@tragus.org]

nice post Turbo Ag

Yes! Thank you very much Turbo Ag!

No I would not make that summary..,

OK. I was hoping for a way to summarize it for the parents without getting into the gritty details.

"bummer" depends if you were on offense or defense?.

Indeed! I guess I'm a glass-half-empty guy ;->

[TurboAg]

So, if a player touches home in a play in which the third out is made the run does not score.

Now you've gone a little too far in the other direction. If the third out does not meet those criteria, e.g., when the 3rd out is not a force out and the run is scored before the out is made, then the run scores. a fairly common example is when a batter gets a hit with a runner on 3rd. The runner on third may score, then the batter/runner gets thrown out trying to advance to second. It wasn't a force, so the run is scored if it crossed the plate before the 3rd out was made.