Batter hits hard single - runner gets hit by ball

[softandbase]

Okay - been looking around in rules but can't find this. Can someone help - Batter hits hard line drive runner on second runs into ball. Does the hit get counted for the batter as a single? I put it into iscore with batter hits hard line drive for a single - runner out due to hit by ball. Iscore counts it as a hit but High School Coach saying no it wasn't a hit -messing with batters stats. What's the rule - one person said Fielder Choice two people say hit - coach says no hit - Thanks for the help! Love the Forum!!!

[OhioTex]

Batter gets a hit. ( iscore got it right too )

Sounds like you need high school rule to support

NFHS baseball 9.3.2.b
9. Scoring
9.3 players batting record
9.3.2 a base hit is credited to a batter when he advances to first base safely:
9.3.2.b. Without liability of being put out because: a runner is declared out for being hit by the batted ball (8-4-2k) ...

( I am assuming the right call on the hit runner being out)

[TurboAg]

First of all, let's clarify the status of the runner hit by the ball (based on MLB rules, not HS, sorry). The runner is out only when he "is touched by a fair ball in fair territory BEFORE the ball has touched or passed an
infielder." Also, if he is on his base when hit or "if a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder and touches" the runner immediately in back of him, the runner is not called out. (MLB 7.09k) Further, "If a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder, no other infielder has a chance to make a play on the ball and the ball touches a runner immediately behind the infielder that the ball went through, or by, the ball is in play and the umpire shall not
declare the runner out." (MLB 5.09f)

All that said, if the batted ball hits a runner and it is ruled interference, the runner is out, the ball is dead and the batter awarded first base. However, it is left to the judgment of the scorer to rule hit, or not: The official scorer shall not credit a base hit when a runner is called out for interference with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball, unless in the scorer’s judgment the batter-runner would have been safe had the interference not occurred." (MLB 10.05b5) But, if not ruled a hit, the batter is not credited with an at bat (MLB 10.02a1iv), thus his stats do not get "messed with".

[softandbase]

Okay - turboag
Not really getting it - thanks to ohiotex
Hard hit line drive - short stop could not have played the ball and went by her. ( thus softball issue) runner ran into ball should batter be called no hit?
So passed infielder hit by ball should not have been counted out? But ball was in fair territory?
Normal situation batter would have and was safe at first with no attempt by fielder - hit or no hit?

[OhioTex]

( edited: Below post was made before new info was posted on the situation and softball, will look into later)

-------------------
(I agree why the runner is out matters, but assuming the on "out" field ruling was correct, )

MLB 10.05.a citation ..

10.05 Base Hits
A base hit is a statistic credited to a batter when such batter reaches base safely, as set forth in this Rule 10.05.
a) The official scorer shall credit a batter with a base hit when:
....
(5) a fair ball that has not been touched by a fielder touches a runner or an umpire, unless a runner is called out for having been touched by an Infield Fly, in which case the official scorer shall not score a hit; or
...

[softandbase]

Thank you!

[OhioTex]

( i will look up NFHS softball citations later, because i recall watching a game last year and thinking they called it different)

secondary question in this thread... should Runner have been out?
( the practical reality is the umpire in charge called the runner out, so this is just a thought exercise).

Hard hit line drive - short stop could not have played the ball and went by her. ( thus softball issue) runner ran into ball should batter be called no hit? So passed infielder hit by ball should not have been counted out? But ball was in fair territory?
Normal situation batter would have and was safe at first with no attempt by fielder - hit or no hit?

MLB baseball (MLB references because handier than NFHS Softball)
here are some relevant citations to think on.. should the Runner be out or ball live?
(colored emphasis added by me)

5.09 The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases,
without liability to be put out, when—

(f) A fair ball touches a runner or an umpire on fair territory before it touches an
infielder including the pitcher, or touches an umpire before it has passed an infielder
other than the pitcher; runners advance, if forced.
if a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder, no other infielder has a chance to
make a play on the ball and the ball touches a runner immediately behind the
infielder that the ball went through, or by, the ball is in play and the umpire shall not
declare the runner out. If a fair ball touches a runner after being deflected by an
infielder, the ball is in play and the umpire shall not declare the runner out;

and later in rules...

7.08 Any runner is out when—
...(f) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an
infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except
runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when
touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out;

7.09 It is interference by a batter or a runner when—
...(k) A fair ball touches him on fair territory before touching a fielder. If a fair ball goes
through, or by, an infielder, and touches a runner immediately back of him, or
touches the runner after having been deflected by a fielder, the umpire shall not
declare the runner out for being touched by a batted ball. In making such decision
the umpire must be convinced that the ball passed through, or by, the fielder, and
that no other infielder had the chance to make a play on the ball. If, in the judgment
of the umpire, the runner deliberately and intentionally kicks such a batted ball on
which the infielder has missed a play, then the runner shall be called out for
interference.

[TurboAg]

The correct call is: it's in the scorer's judgement whether the batter would have had a hit had the runner not been hit (Per MLB 10.05.b.5). It's the umpires judgement whether the runner interfered or not. So, as you describe it, in your judgement it would have been scored a hit.

[OhioTex]

( As promised some NFHS Softball references )

To the secondary question asked .. Should the Runner have been Out ??
(recall this is a thought exercise as the on field ump called runner out)

------------------------------------------------
NFHS Softball [rule excerpts]
8-1-2a

Rule 8 Batter-Runner and Runner

SECTION 1 THE BATTER BECOMES A BATTER-RUNNER
…..
ART. 2 A batter is awarded first base when:
a. a fair batted ball strikes the person, attached equipment, or clothing of an
umpire or a runner.
Effects
1. …
2. If, after passing a fielder other than the pitcher, and no other fielder had a
chance to make an out, the ball is in play.
3. If before passing a fielder without being touched, the ball is dead. If the
runner is hit by the ball while off base and before it has passed an infield- er, excluding the pitcher, or if it passes an infielder and another fielder has an opportunity to make an out, the runner is out and the batter-runner is entitled to first base without liability to be put out. Any runner not forced by the batter-runner must return to the base reached prior to the interference. When a fair ball touches a runner who is in contact with a base, the ball is dead or live depending on whether the closest fielder is in front of the base (live) or behind the base (dead). The runner is not out unless she intentionally interferes.
4 …

SECTION 6 THE RUNNER IS OUT
A runner is out when:
….
ART. 11 . . . The runner is struck with a fair untouched batted ball while not in
contact with a base and before it passes an infielder, excluding the pitcher, or if it passes an infielder and any fielder has an opportunity to make an out.

[OhioTex]

( as promised final NFHS Softball citations)

This is back to the original question... Should the Batter get a Hit?
in the situation when the base runner was declared out for being hit by a batted ball

(despite the rule reference, i like the point raised by TurboAg, that official scorers judgement on Hit/No Hit/fielders choice is still most relevant, the rule just provides additional support)

----------------------
NFHS Softball [rule excerpts]
9-3-2b

Rule 9 Scoring and Record Keeping

SECTION 3 PLAYER’S BATTING RECORD

ART. 2 . . . A base hit is credited to a batter when the batter-runner advances
to first base safely:

a…

b. without liability of being put out because a runner is declared out for being
hit by the batted ball (8-1-2a), or the umpire is hit by a batted ball (5-1-1f).

c….