Player falls over fence, fair territory
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Bryan D Shepherd
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:25 am
- Location: St. Albans, WV; District 3 Little League Umpire; WVSSAC Softball Umpire KS1904
Re: Player falls over fence, fair territory
Any time!
Just as a side note, I still have not found a rule clarification so, for now I will say for the time being that all runners (including the batter-runner) are awarded 4 bases. Please note that for statistical purposes, this is not a home run. A home run must clear the fence in flight, without touching anyone or anything. This is an administrative award.
For iscore, there is no button for an umpire's award for this nature, nor is there a way to charge a team error, so I would have to say to just charge an error to the fielder who attempted the catch, and score him to home "Ball out of play". There is no real clear cut way to do this, unless anyone else can come up with a better way. It's not technically a base hit, because the umpire is awarding the bases to the batter, nor is it a fielder's choice, walk, defensive indifference, etc. Unless someone can come up with a better way to score this, I would say charge an error to the fielder, make a note of it, and move the batter (and all runners on base) to home "Ball out of play".
FTM: I would recommend adding a "Ball out of play" button as a way to get on base too.
Just as a side note, I still have not found a rule clarification so, for now I will say for the time being that all runners (including the batter-runner) are awarded 4 bases. Please note that for statistical purposes, this is not a home run. A home run must clear the fence in flight, without touching anyone or anything. This is an administrative award.
For iscore, there is no button for an umpire's award for this nature, nor is there a way to charge a team error, so I would have to say to just charge an error to the fielder who attempted the catch, and score him to home "Ball out of play". There is no real clear cut way to do this, unless anyone else can come up with a better way. It's not technically a base hit, because the umpire is awarding the bases to the batter, nor is it a fielder's choice, walk, defensive indifference, etc. Unless someone can come up with a better way to score this, I would say charge an error to the fielder, make a note of it, and move the batter (and all runners on base) to home "Ball out of play".
FTM: I would recommend adding a "Ball out of play" button as a way to get on base too.
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Bryan D Shepherd
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:25 am
- Location: St. Albans, WV; District 3 Little League Umpire; WVSSAC Softball Umpire KS1904
Re: Player falls over fence, fair territory
Okay, last night, I was umpiring a little league game and got a hold of one of their rule books and looked this rule up. I don't remember the exact rule number, but it was in Rule 7.00 - Runner. I can't quote it verbatim either, but what it said was If the fielder catches the ball, then flies over the OUTFIELD fence, the batter is out and all runners are awarded 1 base from the time the ball went dead.
The confusion arose in my previous answer because what I was doing was looking at the detached equipment rule (which is a 4 base award to all). I apologise for the confusion.
Edit to add: There are two stipulations, and it may not even affect anyone, but if you play on a field with a collapsible fence, the fence may not be completely flat on the ground for a catch to occur. If it is, it is scored as a home run. Second, the fielder must be on the ground when the catch is made (either by one foot in the air and one on the ground, or two on the ground). Also, the fielder must have secure possession of the ball BEFORE they land in dead ball territory, if there is any doubt, the benefit is given to the batter.
Ref:
Definition of a catch, article 2: In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder must prove he/she has control of the ball and that his/her release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.
Definition of a catch, article 4: For a legal catch, a fielder must catch and have secure possession of the ball before stepping, touching, or falling into dead-ball area.
Definition of a catch, article 5: A catch shall not be credited if... (subsection b) Immediately following a catch, the fielder collides with another player, umpire or fence or falls to the ground and fails to maintain possession of the ball.
The confusion arose in my previous answer because what I was doing was looking at the detached equipment rule (which is a 4 base award to all). I apologise for the confusion.
Edit to add: There are two stipulations, and it may not even affect anyone, but if you play on a field with a collapsible fence, the fence may not be completely flat on the ground for a catch to occur. If it is, it is scored as a home run. Second, the fielder must be on the ground when the catch is made (either by one foot in the air and one on the ground, or two on the ground). Also, the fielder must have secure possession of the ball BEFORE they land in dead ball territory, if there is any doubt, the benefit is given to the batter.
Ref:
Definition of a catch, article 2: In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder must prove he/she has control of the ball and that his/her release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.
Definition of a catch, article 4: For a legal catch, a fielder must catch and have secure possession of the ball before stepping, touching, or falling into dead-ball area.
Definition of a catch, article 5: A catch shall not be credited if... (subsection b) Immediately following a catch, the fielder collides with another player, umpire or fence or falls to the ground and fails to maintain possession of the ball.
Re: Player falls over fence, fair territory
when researching something else I found same/similar interpretation in NCAA baseball rules , aka batter out and runners awarded 1 base... thought i would share...
NCAA baseball Rule 8.3. M ..
"for fields with fences if a fielder legally catches a batted ball and then jumps over or falls over or through the fence and retains the ball, the batter is out and the ball becomes dead. All runners advance one base. if a fair ball drops outside the fence it becomes a home run."
NCAA baseball Rule 8.3. M ..
"for fields with fences if a fielder legally catches a batted ball and then jumps over or falls over or through the fence and retains the ball, the batter is out and the ball becomes dead. All runners advance one base. if a fair ball drops outside the fence it becomes a home run."
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Bryan D Shepherd
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:25 am
- Location: St. Albans, WV; District 3 Little League Umpire; WVSSAC Softball Umpire KS1904
Re: Player falls over fence, fair territory
Yea, same thing.
You have to have possession of the ball before you go into dead-ball territory. If you don't it's ruled according to whereever the ball would've been (over the outfield fence = home run. Anywhere else it's a foul ball. Note that we're talking about balls in flight that have touched nothing except the fielder making the play!) If you fail to maintain possession after flipping over the outfield fence, then it's a home run. Same deal with foul balls.
You have to have possession of the ball before you go into dead-ball territory. If you don't it's ruled according to whereever the ball would've been (over the outfield fence = home run. Anywhere else it's a foul ball. Note that we're talking about balls in flight that have touched nothing except the fielder making the play!) If you fail to maintain possession after flipping over the outfield fence, then it's a home run. Same deal with foul balls.